To: <deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-AT-lists.driftline.org> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:47:52 -0500 Subject: [D-G] n-1: subtraction or abstraction? let's finish the analogy: 'the actual', is reality mediated by interpretation. when i'm trying to hum theory's tune this is what i think. what is language redundant to? -----Original Message----- From: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org [mailto:deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org]On Behalf Of sid littlefield Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 10:22 PM To: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-AT-lists.driftline.org Subject: RE: [D-G] Deleuze and the symbolic I don't think the virtual can be reduced to "interpretation mediated by reality". It seems to reside in Deleuze's metaphysics. I will speak more to this later. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chapman <chapman0603-AT-rogers.com> To: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-AT-lists.driftline.org Subject: RE: [D-G] Deleuze and the symbolic Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:43:59 -0500 > > The next page over in AntiO talks abt the BwO, after Lacan, as the > site of the disjunctive synthesis, "The support is the body without > organs" (38), parsing out meaning through exclusion / displacement. > They call on Lacan for a definition of the BwO in a footnote on > p.39, quoting Lacan's footnote #36 in Ecrits. > > Lacan, as found in D&G, writes: > > "...let us also add that the one dimension limiting this condition > is the translation of which such a chain is capable. Let us > consider this game of lotto for just a moment more. We may then > discover that it is only because these elements turn up by sheer > chance within an ordinal series, in a truly unorganized way, that > their appearance makes us draw lots" > > They go on to suggest that this state of interpretation, > translation of appearances, is a form of writing that is 'inscribed > on the very surface of the Real'. The conversion you suggest > Deleuze makes at the end of his career, giving up on the 'surface/ > depth' trope is interesting because it would seem to me, that as > one of the terms of his lost interest, would be a turn away from > interpretation mediated by reality, ie. the virtual. In a spooky > way, Deleuze is signalling to me, that he is rethinking the > positive act of division. > > I'm not being perfect help here. I imagine that you're wondering > abt what I call non or un-metaphoric interpretation? On that score > I'm following consequences on p.38-9 of AntiO when they talk abt > the BwO as the support for all of the chains of code, linguistic > and otherwise. > > "It is an entire system of shuntings along certain tracks, and of > selections by lot [hear Lacan here and the flickering between > real=cardinal objects in the symbolic=ordinal order], that bring > about partially dependent, aleatory phenomena bearing a close > resemblance to a Markov chain. The recordings and transmissions > that have come from the internal codes, from the outside world, > from one region to another of the organism all intersect, following > the endlessly ramified [tree -either/or - logic] paths of the great > disjunctive synthesis. If this constitutes a system of writing, it > is a writing inscribed on the very surface of the Real..." > > Needless to say this is a hermeneuts game, one that is reaching to > read the Real, that which is given without metaphor. > > --Gotta stop. > > Chris. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org > [mailto:deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org]On > Behalf Of James Depew > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:57 PM > To: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-AT-lists.driftline.org > Subject: Re: [D-G] Deleuze and the symbolic > > > How do you understand this interpretation, how do you envision it > functioning? I'm not sure I understand the second last sentence you > wrote. > > > On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:39:39 -0500, Chapman <chapman0603-AT-rogers.com> wrote: > > Well, The big issue in AntiO is overcoming the faith in lack, the > > zone of differentiation, as it were. Maybe all we need is to read > > "Purloined" then. I'm fascinated by your report of Deleuze's > > economy beyond surface/ depth, beyond reference, in LoS. > > > > "We owe to Jacques Lacan the discovery of this fertile domain of > > a code of the unconscious, incorporating the entire chain - or > > several chains - of meaning: a discovery thus totally > > transforming analysis. (The basic text in this connection is hih > > La letttre volee.) But how very strange this domain seems , > > simply because of its multiplicity- a multiplicity so complex we > > can scarcely speak of one chain or even of one code of desire. > > The chains are called "signifying chains" because they are made > > up of signs, but these signs are not in themselves signifying. > > The code resembles not so much a language as a jargon, an > > open-ended, polyvocal formation." > > > > They go on to say that it is the function of the BwO to interpret > > each of these chains, as they 'fall back' on it. If they allow > > for non-signifying, un- or non-metaphors, then they still seem to > > allow for interpretation. But it's interpretation different in > > kind from the one we're using to communicate with now. > > > > Chris. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org > > [mailto:deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org]On > > Behalf Of James Depew > > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 6:57 AM > > To: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-AT-lists.driftline.org > > Subject: Re: [D-G] Deleuze and the symbolic > > > > Perhaps I "jumped the gun" a little in my last post. Obviously I see > > some connection between Lacan and D&G in their use of the void. I > > think that, however, for D&G the void is not a lack, and that this > > makes for an significant difference (in more ways than one). Perhaps > > we might look at how, for Lacan, the subject is construed as a lack, > > and how it tries, in vain (in vanity), to fill this empty space with > > language. > > > > This also could connect with another thread on this list, comparing > > Badiou and Deleuze. They both refer to the void. > > > > On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:22:55 -0500, Chapman <chapman0603-AT-rogers.com> wrote: > > > Maybe before we try to unpack LoS we can try to figure out a > > little more Lacan? See what's at stake a little better? I would > > like to know more than 'pancake' party tricks and necklaces of > > Signifier/signified. Any suggestions beyond "Purloined Letter"? > > > > > > Chris. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org > > > [mailto:deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org]On > > > Behalf Of James Depew > > > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 5:10 PM > > > To: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-AT-lists.driftline.org > > > Subject: Re: [D-G] Deleuze and the symbolic > > > > > > To be honest, I have always been a little unsure about the end of LoS. > > > My doubts were confirmed when Deleuze himself said "I've undergone a > > > change. The surface-depth opposition no longer concerns me. What > > > interests me now is the relationship between a full body, a body > > > without organs, and flows that migrate." This is perhaps the point at > > > which Lacan becomes the "enemy", I don't know. Nonetheless, LoS is > > > worth studying in order to follow the development of Deleuze's > > > thought. I still think there is the attempt to bring thought and > > > action together. Yes, "Speaking presupposes the verb and passes > > > through the verb", but "This is the verb which, in its univocity, > > > conjugates devouring and thinking: it projects eating on the > > > metaphysical plane and sketches out thinking on it." Then again, > > > those last few chapters of LoS, from the Twenty-Eighth Series of > > > Sexuality on, are all very, very, dense. If any one wants to risk a > > > summary, that would be incredibly helpful. For me, at least... > > > > > > On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:57:02 -0800, sid littlefield > > > <falsedeity-AT-lycos.com> wrote: > > > > I am not sure if thinking and acting are re-united in D&G, > > since speaking and action are united but thinking does not take > > place under a sign, hence is not linguistic. Maybe look at the > > end of LoS where the sexual body is broken in order to think. > > Maybe this is just a mundane point that one cannot think while > > one is fucking, but I think not... > > > > > > > > sid > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "James Depew" <spatium-AT-gmail.com> > > > > To: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-AT-lists.driftline.org > > > > Subject: [D-G] Deleuze and the symbolic > > > > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:34:24 +0100 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have an answer either, but here goes... > > > > > > > > > > The caesura of psychoanalysis, as I understand it, is the break that > > > > > open the space between action and thought enabling one to perceive > > > > > oneself "in the act". However, the thought is not, in this case, in > > > > > the act at all. I think part of what D&G are attempting to provide, > > > > > is something like an alternative whereby thought and act are reunited. > > > > > In therapy, this space occurs in a relationship between analyst and > > > > > patient which the patient is eventually supposed to develop with > > > > > himself. The space has to come to exist in the patient. Many > > > > > theorists seem to think that Winnicott's transitional object is such a > > > > > space. However, Guattari disagrees. He reformulates Winnicott's > > > > > space into the "institutional object" which exists as the > > > > > intersubjective locus of development. So the site typically reserved > > > > > for the ego is replaced by a generalized, or perhaps neuter, site of > > > > > differential relations. The subject is still void, thought here it is > > > > > no longer dispersed amongst structural sites that eventually holds > > > > > symbols for the construction of the subject =E2=80=93 the filling in of the > > > > > gap =E2=80=93 instead the gap is already distributive. As far as I can tell, > > > > > this gap becomes the smooth space of the social and the circulation of > > > > > forces across this space the virtual potential for formalization. The > > > > > social as subject. However, when the social actualizes, striates, the > > > > > circulation is inevitably(?) coded, channeled, controlled. > > > > > > > > > > I recently read somewhere about Blanchot's reading of Serge Leclair. > > > > > Blanchot points to the third person position that disperses the power > > > > > of the "I" as a matter of refusal. I believe he uses the term neuter. > > > > > Here, the ego is always trying to destroy the third person that > > > > > refuses to accept determination of "is". The third person refuses to > > > > > be negated by particularization. A pure "he" or "it" without the "is" > > > > > predicate. In that refusal, that displaceability of the third person > > > > > exists a multiplicity of experiences without particulars, a > > > > > virtuality. Guattari often refers to this "third". This is how D&G > > > > > turn the subject into a void, though not in the Lacanian sense. > > > > > Yesterday I sat in on a lecture by Jean-Luc Nancy, and he suggests > > > > > that poetry operates the same way =E2=80=93 according to a break. He points > > > > > to the structure of the verse (versus: from vertere, to turn) as > > > > > always returning to a baseline degree 0 site where it can begin again. > > > > > Poetic truth, he suggests, is torn from the void only to return to > > > > > the void in order to speak again. (Unlike philosophy which just goes > > > > > on and on...) > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, it seems to me that the symbolic has a differentiating > > > > > function for D&G. The third person continues to disperse itself in > > > > > symbols, but not in the attempt to create a stable position, an ego, > > > > > rather it is a kind of refusal of all particularization. The symbolic > > > > > is always intercalary, filling the void, and a mask for the sake of > > > > > masking. Thought and act reunited? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org > > > > > Admin interface: > > > > > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages > > > > > > http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org > > > > Admin interface: > > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org > > > Admin interface: > > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org > > > Admin interface: > > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org > > Admin interface: > > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org > > Admin interface: > > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org > Admin interface: > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org > Admin interface: > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 _______________________________________________ List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org Admin interface: http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org _______________________________________________ List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org Admin interface: http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org
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