File deleuze-guattari/deleuze-guattari.0507, message 23


Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 14:03:49 -0400
From: NZ <pretzelworld-AT-gmail.com>
To: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-AT-lists.driftline.org
Subject: [D-G] Re: How does one know when a 'revolutionary' medium has


I have some personal theories about Art that I would like to
abbreviate so that I can connect them to the discussion of
Anti-Oedipus and the revolutionary potential of Art.

Basically I think that Art is all about Identity, and Capitalism
destroys Identity with Alienation. Without Identity the working class
will never revolt. Art can visualize forms that have a revolutionary
potential which are physically separate from the artist. That is the
power of Art - after all, the book we are reading is called
"Anti-Oedipus," named after a work of art. Art is just a zone of a
larger landscape of Identity we know as Culture. Capitalism controls
that landscape with its own version of culture known as the
Culture-Industry. The culture-industry is how Capitalism gives us back
Identity without revolutionary potential.
 
In Anti-Oedipus, chapter 4.3 "Psychoanalysis and Capitalism", DyG talk
a bit about the revolutionary potential of alienation, but not in
those words. Maybe someone can find a better quote, but in the passage
I found they also seem to link general concepts of Identity to family.
Is that because they think Identity is somehow fixed there; or are
they merely stressing the family-structure angle for their Oedipal
critique? Take a look:
"Thus the link between representation-belief and family is not
accidental; it is of the essence of representation to be familial
representation. But production is not thereby suppressed, it continues
to rumble, to throb beneath the representative agency. [...] that
suffocates it and it in return can make it resonate to the breaking
point. Thus in order to keep an effective grip on the zones of
production, representation must inflate itself with all the power of
myth and tragedy [...]."

On the next page they talk about family in such a way that seems
contradictory, but is it?: "Have you ever seen a child at play: how he
already populates the technical social machines with his own
desiring-machines, O sexuality - while the father or mother remains in
the background, from whom the child borrows parts and gears according
to his need [...]."
Here, I supposed the assumption is that the child's psyche creates a
family-structure (Oedipal) within himself which is not necessarily
based upon his mommy-daddy-me family, but is reflected and supported
by that family, right? So, the greater point that I take from this is
the general motion of Identity-Genesis [Gen-I], all within the human
psyche, the specifics of which are Oedipal. That motion of
Identity-Genesis can be imagined as Production, basically, and within
it is a revolutionary potential.
Have I connected too many dots, or does this picture already make sense?
Any ideas on why it is that an Identity created from the "parts and
gears" of the culture-industry would lack revolutionary potential?
Something to do with DyG's abhorrent 'fresh superstructures" maybe?
Like a blind outwards spiral shattering the outer Absolute, that
cannot inform the inwards motion towards the inner Absolute?


On 7/2/05, adline vanlindenbergh <bisouxnoursfast-AT-fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> I think that we have to start discussing. I think it is for long that we
> need to discuss and I think I am one person among a billions who reads
> Deleuze and need this final discussion.
>
> Also we should play amongst other groups, and stop creativity.
> Only by stopping andf killing the poet in us, can we understand DG.
>
> Many will disagree, but the Poet will understand.
>
> Also a good idea would be to rhizome. Like Harald did with me.
> I liked that.
>
> I think we need also to share and be Communist not with goods but with
> ideas.
> If you have an idea share it. This is how we can work against the artist
> who think they are Deleuzians, but are not worthy of the name.
>
> There are about 120 person who read this mail. I think it's could be
> enough to try to bring more crowd.
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "james" <spatium-AT-gmail.com>
> > To: <deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-AT-lists.driftline.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 11:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: [D-G] How does one know when a 'revolutionary' medium has
> > runitscourse?
> >
> >
> > joan
> >
> > Have you seen the recent publication of Guattari's "=C9crits pour
> > l'Anti-Oedipe"?  This book begins to explore the dynamic between D&G
> > and Stéphane Nadaud opens with the question of who wrote (consider the
> > opening of Rhizome) and how AO was produced, perhaps in the manner of
> > a wasp and an orchid...
> >
> > james
> >
> > On 6/23/05, joan carol urquhart <jcu-AT-execulink.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > The medium is just a tool.
> > > It's usefulness or relevance always recycles.
> > >
> > > I am interested in the how these two men wrote together.
> > > What was that dynamic? And am not sure if anything has been
> > > written about this.
> > >
> > > But to respond to your post,
> > > if all it would take is
> > > "the right post to send us shooting along a witch's line".
> > >  why not give it a try and find out.
> > >
> > > j
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "sid littlefield" <falsedeity-AT-lycos.com>
> > > To: <deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-AT-lists.driftline.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:26 PM
> > > Subject: [D-G] How does one know when a 'revolutionary' medium has run
> > > itscourse?
> > >
> > >
> > > The question is how one is to determine whether a medium can still be
> > > considered revolutionary or not. Is it possible for a revolutionary
> > artform
> > > to no longer be able to produce interesting thoughts.
> > >
> > > I speak here of two examples. If one looks at Jazz (and ignores
> Adorno's
> > sad
> > > attempt to understand/defeat it) one can see the revolutionary
> importance
> > it
> > > played, in music but also literature (the beats) etc. But it is
> difficult
> > to
> > > see how Jazz can still play this role, especially given its own
> popularity
> > > and the lack of inspiring acts. So, is it exhausted, is such a thing
> > > possible.
> > >
> > > The other example is our own list. I have been a member for a while and
> > have
> > > seen the floods and the famines. It seems now that this list has run
> its
> > > course and is exhausted, or even dead. And while we may say that there
> is
> > a
> > > real lack of interest it is also true everytime something gets started
> it
> > is
> > > quickly shot down by the non-sense that floods the list (Although I am
> > > impressed that we a monkey and a galactic bounty hunter participating,
> it
> > > does not make the interventions any easier). Is this list exhausted or
> > dead?
> > > Is it simply waiting for the right post to send us "shooting along a
> > witch's
> > > line"? Can a form be brought back from the edge of obscurity?
> > >
> > > This question is larger than my interest in Jazz and our interest in
> this
> > > list. It is a political question that the left is coming to grips with
> and
> > > that this list has now to ask itself.
> > >
> > > sid
> > >
> > > --
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating
> sites
> > at
> > > once.
> > > http://datingsearch.lycos.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org
> > > Info:
> > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org
> > > Archives: www.driftline.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org
> > > Info:
> > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org
> > > Archives: www.driftline.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org
> > Info:
> > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org
> > Archives: www.driftline.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org
> > Info:
> > http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org
> > Archives: www.driftline.org
> --
>   adline vanlindenbergh
>   bisouxnoursfast-AT-fastmail.fm
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be
>
> _______________________________________________
> List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org
> Info:
> http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org
> Archives: www.driftline.org
>
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