Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:12:38 +0100 (BST) From: Gondo -Minnie <gondominnie-AT-yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [D-G] Re: Deleuze Impossibility to THINK To: deleuze-guattari-driftline.org-AT-lists.driftline.org your story is like the molecular version of art history. i wish i felt easy with you to talk comfortable and explain the link with deleuze, why its not n importe quoi, but you seem molecularly aggressive, for no reason. let's calm down, lets caaaalm it alll down. bizoux Gondo friend Lucy also agreed. NZ <pretzelworld-AT-gmail.com> wrote: I returned from Berlin last week and everybody seemed to be doing well, with their wireless internet and "Golden Girls" on TV. The idea that europe will be flung into dangerous chaos by France's "no" seems unlikely. Just like their vote last may, this vote just does not seem imperative at this moment in history. (I am thinking of other problems, like an economy formed by China and India teaming up with bella Russia! it could easily swallow the dollar, the pound, and the euro, combined.) So, France chooses not to downgrade their power by voting out the '82 Commission and voting in the new constitution, what does this have to do with Foucault, I would like to know. I also need some help to see this mythic curve tracing "Nietszche and Lou to Nin and Smith, finally betrayed by Foucault." I am much more conscious of another mythic curve coming from Stirner and piercing both Nietsche & wagner then going passed them through Duchamp & mussilini, dispersing it into the american art world for a number of decades, before hitting Foucault specifically at his anti-fascist heart. I see parallels in these two tragectories but most often they are contradictions of each other that are difficult to resolve. At least at the end they both return to Foucault, who returns to Marx, which is not so good for Nin's camp, but is really very revealing for Duchamp's. This all happened in the decadent period of late 1920's Paris. Nin has Miller leaving NYC coming to Paris, signaling a huge new chapter in american avant-garde consumerism (And-I). The court battles that allowed Miller's work to be published in the US trod on some very fundemental paradigms that were eventually shifted... but meanwhile, Duchamp slowly leaves Paris for NYC, he has given up avant-garde art for chess - basically because he believed chess to be immune to the rampant commercialization that he was witnessing in the art world (Nor-I). Later, after the war, people like Cage and Beckett devised a frankenstein version of the pre-WW2 avant-garde that includes bits and pieces of Duchamp's fractured legacy. Their significance is also tied to the fact that they demanded paradigm shifts to be experienced. They are like Wilde's Salome, the virgin who kisses the head after decapitation. Then there is the other salome, Lou, the one who threw nietszche into the abyss of Stirner's '"creative nothing", she is like the pre-Dionysian goddess Cybele, asking for castration, but Nietsche was unable to let it go, unable to see beyond Apollo and Dionysis, and it was the contradictions in his German Ideology as Marx saw it. If perhaps he could have been less german, or less male, like Wilde was, perhaps he could find identity (And-I) with his maddening absolute. But Stirner makes an insightful distinction that ultimately brings this all back to Foucault. Stirner would never agree with that fundamental post-structuralist idea, that as a product of systems, the "self" is undermined. For Stirner, the self cannot be a mere product of systems. True, but Marx wrote over 200 pages showing that this german ideology was lacking significant depth. So what of this EU? yes or no? At least in germany the Stirner-ists are perfectly content with their "self" watching the latest (10-years-old) american shows like "Friends" and "Home Improvement" on cable TV. The day I left Berlin, the Jackson family announced that Berlin is where they will be moving the Neverland ranch... "home improvement" indeed. _______________________________________________ List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org Info: http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org Archives: www.driftline.org --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail _______________________________________________ List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org Info: http://lists.driftline.org/listinfo.cgi/deleuze-guattari-driftline.org Archives: www.driftline.org
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