From: "hwenk" <hwenk-AT-web.de>
To: <deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:35:07 +0200
Subject: Re: [D-G] [Norton] Re:  Deleuze, the brain, subjectivation, phobias,


Hello,

hatha yoga as put down in the "Hatha Yoga pradipika"
contains all asanas, also pranayama, is more than a good
preparation. Indeed you can attain opening the chakras
by asanas from it.
As far as I know iyengar made yoga a little more
dynamic and Olympic sports like, western minded.
As  asana has something to do with
steady position, this is in my eyes not real yoga like.
I don't know if there opening of chakras actually took place.
It is easy to overstretch, or maybe.
As far as I know Iyengar himself need an operation at his knee.
That does not sound good for a prominent yoga teacher.
But if you do it with a good teacher, understanding and carefully,
also looking at the chakras ....

greetings Harald Wenk

-----Original Message-----
From: deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org
[mailto:deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org]On Behalf Of Bruno
Sent: Dienstag, 25. Juli 2006 10:00
To: deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [D-G] Deleuze, the brain, subjectivation,
phobias, rhizom and yoga


Hello,

what you think about hata yoga (invengar -style)?

bruno

----- Original Message -----
From: "hwenk" <hwenk-AT-web.de>
To: <deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org>
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: [D-G] Deleuze, the brain, subjectivation, phobias, rhizom and yoga


> Hello,
>
>
> There is a prominent place, where Deleuze and Guattraia  refenre to yoga,
> that is on the mentioning of
> the Body without organs.
>
> As I told before, the main theme especially for Guattari is
> subjectivation,
> which are
> often and normally accompanied with a crisis,
> this is also some crisis in the brain where new cennections are made, due
> to
> produce
> new neurotransmitters.
> These new neurotransmittters and the new self or machimne involging the
> "I"
> process,
> the result of that subjectivtion,
> could be happy making  selfamplifing stable and harmonizing with the rest
> of
> the brain,
> which would be a rhizomlike growing of the brain, or they
> could get inhibiting, prohibting, painful neurotransmittetrs,
> which make the former rhizom smaller.
> This is pointed to on pafge 22 of mille plateaux, "Rhizom".
> where Deleuze and Guattari cite Freuds "little Hans" where his
> rhizom is stolen, blocked, ending up in a phobia.
>
> Now the way out, to get your rhizom in your head not turned into fear,
> to be stable to happy, on a neurological level is:
>
> "The Body without organs"
> on the second or third third of page of it (mille plateaux p 187):
> "Why not walk on the head, sing with the sinus, see with the skin,
> breath with the belly,  simple thing, anorexie, seeing skin,
> entity,
> f u l l  b o d y!!!, travel on place,
> Y O  g A!!, Krishna , Love, experiment."
>
> So there we are.
>
> The yogis are the only one who know
> how to control
> even the autonomous nervous sytem.
> They know that the only possibility to get in real contact with others is
> to
> have reduced the inner trouble so much that you are able to
> hear the other.
>
> This is my eyes  is telling you something real important.
>
> Therer is no real use in talking of freedom, even ewith tehories which are
> feedom like,
> with underground fears and cinflicts hidden in the brain.
>
> I read a little Lyotard of the time the Anti-Odedpe was discussed ((about
> 1972).
> It is real astonishing what both Deleuze and Guattari had to bear
> on bad and also hurting critics, even from the left.
> As far as I remeber in the secocond edition,
> aklso in thegerman transaltion there is a remarkabit.
> There were even accused of being "fascistic".
> That was real too much.
> The answer was alos ith yoga.
> As long as we lnow about fscism in us it maybe not so evil.
> And wher is their fascism: "Did you do you yog aercercises today."
> Real fascistic - that s high selfirony.
> The accuser of fascism to them are ooften very less concious about their
> fascistic structures.
>
> A little bit it is the sam e with reading Deleuze and Guattari.
> They worked a lot, but mostly it seems some people think it has nothing to
> do with then m and we make some jokes and talk about other things.
> Thta is using high theory to very low needs.
> Like taking a computer only  to hold a door open, where a stone had been
> sufficent.
>
> So you have to make something like the hardware of real
> commincation.
>
> And for a subjectivation, which especially Guattari sometimes liked to
> bound
> to group proceses,
> where a rhizom or a little machine happend liberating the peope by a
> group more than the people alone by connecting
> the selfamplifying sides of the inner machines or souls including the
> autonmous system
> and the unconcioussnes, caused by hormos, and neurotransmitters.
>
> The yogis are alo well aware of these processes and search
> the inner process from where you you can build up your rhizom further
> by overcoming the resistance of the painfulll inhibiting
> neurotransmitters,
> due to keep the fuction divison, also called present state of the
> organism.
> On a psychic level this has also something to do with overcoming
> interpretations of the outer and inner world strongly determined by
> fears or the past in general.
> But as affects need affects to be overcome you need some building up
> neurotransmitters
> to win against the painful ones.
> Or do you think they are no painful neurotransmitters nad this no real
> problem?
> The bad concious is also causing pain - by neurotransmitters.
>
>
> To yogis go so far as there is no need to suppress
> the getting concious of the effects of the hormpomns and neurotransmitters
> coming from the autonomous system, which  is hard work,
> and only successfulll through long and efforting practice.
> But it is possible by known and also
> managable exercises - e.g. kundalini yoga.
>
> Thisis the reason I resist so much on it.
>
> People driven by unconcious fears
> will have a lot of difficulties to build up social relationships
> which are to to grow altogether and not to let grow
> the struggle with one another and within.
>
> Therfore it is good in yoga to make you exercices alone,
> undisturbed,
> even the experience of your voice by chanting something like "Om"
> the you can feel what a chest a heart is like-.
> Also singing is not bound to yoga, you can dispense
> singing "om" without any harm.
>
> Afte yoga,  with more inner strength, clearness and solidtiy you can go
> and
> have
> some fun
> or further development or doing or thinking something useful without to
> much
> stress
> with others.
> And get a real master of yourself - which is much more difficult as it is
> thought to be.
> Yoga requisits very much honesty.
>
>
> Concerning sleep is to say,
> that there are a lot of causes,
> noises of course by pollution,
> inner and outer stress,
> exhaustion.
>
> Drugs as alcohol or so do not help really in too much dosis, the sleep
> gets
> even more flat.
> The sleeping medicin advices some disciplin in sleeping,
> solving the trouble, not to much informations
> including tv before sleeping,
> enough, relaxation from yoga,
> not to sleep to long at the weekend after sleeping to less in the week.
>
> The Dalai Lamai rightly says: "If the people only could deep relax, or
> even
> know somehow wherefrom
> whatever what real deep realxation is.
> The world would be of much more understanding.
> Maybe even the seller of and the producers of the the products
> you consum want to live on an economical stable level - how surprising. "
> Deep relaxation indeed makes more stable, healthy and is against fears.
>
>
>
> I like to add that especially Guattari found anticonsum campaigns a littl
> bit ridicilous and without
> any feeling for the desires of real living people.
>
>
>
> I looked in one of my medicin books: ketamin is
> a narcoticum used for chirugian operations,
> something like a hard chemical  cudgel,
> they write the awakening after some dosis is horrible.
> So it is no good advice to take it without any need.
>
> Yogis prefer to do without such things.
>
> greetings Dr. Harald Wenk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org
> [mailto:deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org]On Behalf Of
> .+oot3AM patient
> Sent: Freitag, 21. Juli 2006 17:40
> To: deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org
> Subject: Re: [D-G] this has all be one big tease!!
>
>
> Thanks for the information, I will have to revisit the despot chapters
> of A-O and see what you are actually talking about, but if I recall
> correctly, most of those chap. are referring to the nature of "surplus
> value" and how the despot manages to milk it beyond mere physical
> territory... thus the "reterritorialing-agent" was born as a despot
> and so now the despotic attack is realized upon the plane of
> metaphysics, where the individual can be manipulated by the
> surplus-value of their knowledge and ignorance.
>
> "damn" those darn oriental despots!!!  Gosh, if only someone could
> have recommended a good yoga instructor to saddam, maybe we wouldn't
> be in this horrible nightmare of history!! Of course I am just joking,
> but personally I am having trouble seeing why you must put yoga into
> the center of this discussion. I notice that no matter what the
> discussion is, you like to talk about yoga instead... is this really
> the place to talk about yoga? I am not clear how you keep linking yoga
> to D-G, I would like to be more clear.
>
> My point (re:"contratual remark") is that yoga does NOT faciltate the
> the NECESSARY connectiveness of rhyzoma activity, but instead yoga is
> part of the megamachine-agenda and its designs on the BwO. (but
> sometimes the coding is good.)People spend half their life sleeping,
> breathing and resting and dreaming.. all quietly natural w/o this
> yoga-agenda. these alfa-beta-theta states are all the aspirations of a
> yoga lesson yet why the lesson if the body will do this on its own? I
> am not against yoga, it is nice and good for folks and i have no
> question about that...
>
> One way to answer my question involves understanding why "natural
> sleep-state" is so difficult for millions of people, especially today
> 2006. There are as many pharma-drugs as there are yoga-schools that
> can help a person reach these states. The tibetian dali lama (who
> claims to be a devil from the 114th dimension of hell) has even gone
> so far as to say that "whatever means"(re:drugs vs yoga) it takes to
> reach these states is acceptable to him and his agenda, so you can see
> that the dali lama makes little distinction between yoga and pharm
> drugs. But that is devil from the 114th dimension of hell speaking.
>>From experience I know that Ketamin is an extremely intense drug to
> take that will help an animal-patient resolve their mind/body issues,
> and I believe it is 10x faster and deeper then any yoga experience. To
> see this distinction yyou really have to try both sides (multiple
> sides) before you can make this "fair judgement" that you want to
> reach.
>
> -------------
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