To: <deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:29:35 +0200
Subject: [D-G] FW:  Carnival and Violence


Hello rumagin

you may not believe it, bit even if its not a 20 years
1000000 people study, but only your private experience, I am
interested in your opinion and experience what about
the more love and care which are thought to be given
to children in countries with very low  social welfare
and the historical grown mentality regarding family and children.
This is in my eyes in Trinidad the case.
Here in Europe it is a little bit puzzling, that one of
the
southern countries, namely Italy,
being prejudiced to being very fond of children,
has the lowest birth rate  in Europe.

We know that more wealth and education reduces the birth rate,
but the mentality factor seemed to be ruled out in Italy.

Now prejudices are always to coarse,
but I had hoped that on very large scale statistics there maybe something in
it.

The cruelties you reported from Trinidad are the other way   contrary to
"beloved children of southern countries"-myth.

Therefore some glimpses of qualified reality insights would be helpful.

Best wishes

Dr. Harlad Wenk



-----Original Message-----
From: deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org
[mailto:deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org]On Behalf Of hwenk
Sent: Dienstag, 5. September 2006 11:04
To: deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org
Subject: Re: [D-G] Carnival and Violence


Hello Mr. rumgin,

It looks like you like your country and the people there very much.

Speaking psychologic you defend their souls against their
deeds - as it is necessary for muderers.

In a way this is also done by the science of criminalistic.

As far as I know
crimalism is to a great extend bound back to bad social
and economical conditions,
eventually time lacked through eductaion
without real care and love for the soul of the child.
This maybe perpetuaded over some generations without
intervention.

This is the stora in highly industrialized countries like germany.
But my superficial experience with more
foreign people,
especially from countries where the sun is shining a lot more often
and the state is not so developed to such an extent, is
that the familiy and the care of the children is
more characterized by love and care for the children,
even in economic poor families and conditions.

There your "ethnographic studies" would be interesting,
how such cruelty and comparable high rate of murders
and other criminal deeds is to be explained - on a personal psycholgical
level,
taking in account a strated, that is very differentiated, soul.

greetings Harald Wenk




-----Original Message-----
From: deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org
[mailto:deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org]On Behalf Of Dylan
Kerrigan
Sent: Montag, 4. September 2006 18:59
To: deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org
Subject: [D-G] Carnival and Violence


Thank you all who responded, the emails are all useful and extremely
divergent.

The haitian examples are important, but because of my geographical
choice of Trinidad and Tobago they relate to a distinct historical
schema, as such they more inform my thinking than offer a parallel. What
super dragon (i love dragons) says about it not being "necessary to
establish a relational content specific link between capitalism and the
specificity of the crimes-this would return it to an arborescent schema
but it could be possible to map the crimes geopolitically, that is
emerging in an intersection of forces"  helps because the link between
carnival and violence, while productive in a machinic, coupling sense is
not causal.  Violence as Hannah Arendt shows in Eichmann in Jerusalem is
often the result of different cogs moving together at the same time to
produce finalities greater than the actions of one person alone. these i
believe are Dragons's geopolitical, intersection of forces, rhizomes and
thousand plateuxs whose products are never linear.

Dr Crawboney too gets that later, when he talks of echoes, different
spheres and the spritual/territorial. I would perhaps suggest that this
is not where haiti is unique but rather this is where the Caribbean as a
whole is unique, islands who connect to every country in the world. Very
little of the indigenous populations remains most souls and stories have
been transplanted - Africans, French Creoles, Lebanese, Indians,
Chinese, the list is longer than my mind. the violence must relate to
capital - to schizophrenia - to rhizomes beneath whose surface come up
and intersect a history that has no western linear narrative.

Unfortuantely for Adline's impressive demonstration of deleuzian
thinking it confuses a person territorialised in this present cultural
world. perhaps one day i will be able to communicate answers to this
that others may also understand, but for now i use your response as an
example of how difficult the task is to map the intersection of forces.
Mr Wenk makes points others have but in his own way. first i would say
that the public discourse of police, the judiciary, psychologists and
politicians mark the general violence in society, its increase too - as
random, which following ethnographic research i have undertaken i would
counter. the violence is not random, people do not just walk up to
someone they dont know and proceed to murder them because they are
smiling or playing cards. Headlines may textualise the violence and
produce such sentiment but this is to create fear, fear to maintain the
hegemonic status quo because random violence requires hard talk, and
tough action.

but the connection between forces, between sexualised beautiful naked
bodies, between grotesque mutilated dead bodies, between road accidents
everyday, between the profit motive in carnival as opposed to the
artistic motive, to the fact Trinidad is the no.1 supplier of Liquid
natural gas to US in the world, to the impact of a disapora which
touches many of the world's largest cities, to the influx of different
peoples that made the repopulating of the island possible after
colonialism wiped out the indigenous souls, to their echo, to much much
more - these are the different cogs that go together to produce the
action of one person to murder another, to commit crimes, to do violence
on the rest of us. These are the parts of a machine that produces, that
says the system itself is dysfunctional and will only manufacture
products which are so to

thanks again, more comments are great, but maybe i confused it some more.

best

rumagin


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