To: <deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:31:21 +0100
Subject: Re: [D-G] Yoga psychology is a very fine analysis of brainneurology


Hello,

it former times, not only in India,
sexuality was much more an "art of the body and the lusts".
The Kamasutra is nothing else than a manual which
played a role in the education of young aristocrats.
I got the impression, one has to thought people before modern times a lot
more sensual,
world wide.

Remember that not only the sect of the kopts had as
only technique for mastering sexuality direct castration.
"If your eye bother you .... "

Now in India the connection between sexualtiy and the highest peaks
of intellectual or spiritual experiences are much more deeper.
As you might know, thes ymbol of Shiva, the Shivalingam is nothing else but
a
quite obvious Phallus symbol. And the early yogies and trantrics,
for sexual tantra it has then to be a woman as master,
managed by bringing ejaculation under control, what is mentioned in
thousands plateaux,
to get indeed a very intensive and also quite intellectual
high feeling for a comparativly long time - they speak of 15 minutes --
which Deleuze and Guattari call "Plateaux".

The asanas or exercises to bring ejaculation under control are a
part of hatha yoga, that are superficial
gymnastic excercises. A special role her play bhandas,
bringing the muscules ofthe  anus and penis by contraction and relaxation
under control
in connection with breathing techniques.
These asanas are not always mentioned and described in western texts on
sexual tantra, but without them control
gets difficult.
Especially for youg men the problem of to early ejaculation is very common,
which is  a little tragic,
but with tehese bhandas it can overcome.
As everyone knows, there is no real sexual technique training for ordinary
people.
If you like more western style, oral sex is also a good method to get
ejacualtion and orgasm under control.
It is also sure preventation.

But, to come back, the connection between sexuality and high spirtuality
connects indeed indian
psychology a little with Freud and psychoanalysis.

Deleuze and Guatttari make the model of biological or else where driven
desires more general.
Indeed not only sexuality gives pleasure, but moving the body, thinking,
sounds like music and so on.
Sublimitationn  of sexual hormons, as thought by Freud,  is to narrow to
take in account the lot
and diversity of brain chemistry by neurotransmitters, which is very
widespread, and which all
give pleasure or unpleasure or a misxture of both. This is in my eyes the
background of the "n sexes" of the Anti-Oedipe.
There is also learning and control of second order, to get used to new
neurotransmitters amd eventually control their production.
The control of sexuality is often also a sign of masterhood,
mastering such high intensities is a little bit "Transcendental".
There the tantric and yogic direct control is much better than
suppression an renunciation.

As you may imagine, sexual tantra was very popular and got also esoteric.
The general tendency to ascetism and renounciation for
professional monks or maybe also a bit social driven,
in preventing to much people to do become monk  and to get to much childs.
And also to educate the monks by giving them an almost impossible to
master problem.

In my eyes, they should have done  and should do a lot of other yoga and
tantra asanas and
make difficult intellectual work, which, to be honest, is  mostly also
part of monastry like practices.

But kundalini yoga is a technique to make the whole brain more and better
function, or the brain more whole.
Especiallly the two translation of proper body glands and secrets from the
autonomous sytem to the limbic system
and then to the neocortex
got far more better. As these translations
are the neurological background of
mental illness, the subconcioussness and the uncouncioussness,
the limbic sytem, the hypothalamus and thalamus, are working a lot more than
normal.

This is the reason for the more deepth and intensive feelings --
or the other way round the overfunctining of the limbic sytem tries to
explain that high intesities.

This high grades of feelings, intensitiies,  seem also the to have been the
starting point for the fascination why
Deleueze and especially Guattari started to work on psychosis and
schizophrenia.


Integrating the un- and subconciousness on the level of synapses and
neurotransmitters and
brain electrical circuits as achieved by yoga techniques,  give indeed a
practial way of improving mental health.
You work on the brain and the synapses directly without
any drugs.
This is the reason for my appraisal of kundalini yoga and Guattari
describes this  in "Chaosmose" as the optimal
integration of the unconciousness and subcounciousness and
evokes Nietzches "surhuman".

Now in psychosis there is more functioning of the brain in general,  and so
kundalini yoga is an optimal way
to direct in in a "great health" (Nietzsche).
The more functionung includes often the intellectual level and the
neocortex, which is expressed by the known inclination
to poetry and theory of a lot of so called psychotics.

 Drugs have normally side effects.
In India drugs also also sometimes widely used, but for "spiritual progress"
there is the advise to leave them aside.
They have a lot of experience with such things there.

As also the brain works on itself by subjectivation,
in oder to get something very complicated and fine, proper and stable
functioning,
controlled self regulation is much to prefer compared to  drugs.


So far for today.


Greetings Harald Wenk

-----Original Message-----
From: deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org
[mailto:deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org]On Behalf Of james
Sent: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2007 00:03
To: deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org
Subject: Re: [D-G] Yoga psychology is a very fine analysis of
brainneurology from within in accordance with the molecular viewof
Deleuze and Guattari


Harald,

What do you make of D&G's mentions of the "Tantric egg"?

james

On 2/12/07, hwenk <hwenk-AT-web.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I find it worthwhile to mention, that the psychology of yoga, as laid down
> in Patanjalis yoga sutras and texts on kundalini yoga, are a very fine
> description of
> states of conciousness, the interaction with the sub- and unconciousness,
> the building
> if circular mental patterns (vrittis), which may be relateded to traumata
or
> thoughts coming
> by themselves, analysis of dream states and also the fancy (delirs), wrong
> knowledge (including hallucinations).
>
> What is also striking is the theory of the mantal frame, the change of
> the essence of the mind, like the growing from child to adult.
> This is done by the theory of chittas, which are a chain of
> "I" concsciousness. There are  severeal layers or strates of conciousness,
> including on for self esteemm and on for logical thinking (manas).
> There is also an phase transition if the neocortex take sover more
activity
> by
> dominaring things through elctrical activity and not so much
> neurotransmitters (buddhis).
>
> This has to do with subjectivation through deep crisis, and the subjective
> processes accompanied with it,
> what is laid down only in these texts. Other texts concerning advanced
> processes of subjectivation out of
> more mystical traditions have no such obvious connections
> to our western well estalished, materialistic neurobiology.
>
> It is easy to explain in a sociological framework, why these knowledge
> became esoteric and marginalized and is mostly
> still bound
> to religious discourses. It simply hinders it wide spreading, letting such
> the social system or the strates intact.
> The tantric Buddhist, having institutionalize sthese knowledge and
practces
> werew
> also swept out of India
> by the orthodox brahmins in an counterreformation against Luther and
> protestantism remindimg manner.
> In spreading to more far east, the tantric tadition, which si some older
> name of form of yoga,
> was not overtaken so fully and mostly neglected, eeven in monastaries.
>
> I am a little bit puzzled, that there seem to be no interst in these
> coincidations with yoga psychology,
> not by the neurologists and also Guattari (Deleuze was for sure bo
> neurologist) and othe ranti psychatrists.
> For short, not even by critical scientists. This is more than puzzling,
> as the search for an alternative to neuroleptica was one of
> the starting points of the movement of Antipsychatry.
> This search itself brought psychanalysis
> and psychtherapeuthic cures into critique,
> because the treatment of psychosis was obviously with to
> little success in real healing.
> Psychosis was the starting point of Lacan, who
> inaugurated the work of Guattari who adopted this and lead to the
> collaboration
> with Deleuze.
> As you all know, psychosis became the starting point of the whole Deleuze
> Guattari theory of mind.
>
> At last, the in India calle dkundalini is also present in the first pages
> of the Ant-Oedipe - it is nothing else than the divine "numen".
> But there is also no reference - not to kundalini, not to chinese chi, not
> to something else in this direction.
>
> For what is yoga - "an ensemble of practices".
> Of course you can make an intelligent election ever day.
> There is also progress by abstraction.
>
> greetings Harald Wenk
>
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