File deleuze-guattari/deleuze-guattari.0705, message 11


Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 01:32:22 +0200
To: deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org
Subject: Re: [D-G] desire - conatus - lacan - spinoza - deleuze


hello,

first of all thank you for your reply.

1)i do think that la chose is connected with obsessive choice, i have 
never hear it as a synonym,
but the obsessive character of la chose is present. I will find out how 
exactly la chose connects with
obsession. i know that lacan writes about it in his 7th seminar.

yes your reply is correct, that is exactly my question.

2)thanx so much for the hint. I will read chapter two.
i have seen it: it is in in the first subchapter: a devalutaion of 
consiousness.

this is close to something else : it was on descartes that spinoza react.
for descartes the affects of the body disturb the soul. So descartes 
wanted to purify ideas
from bodily affects. he was searching for ways that the soul can get 
power over the body.
But within spinoza there is no causal interaction between the body and 
spirit. so this
is completely not the case for spinoza.  (just adressing it for whom it 
might interest)
spinoza's parrallism : spirit and body as expression of the one substance.

3)it is fantastic that experiments back up the theory of spinoza.
like a math professor me ones told: experiments and examples
are the things that are important in explaining something.

friendly greetings filip


.+oot8am wakeup schreef:
> Hi,
>
> What I understand to be going on is that you are looking for some
> parallelism between lacan's version "obsessive choice" that cancel
> each other (is it that one?) and something within what deleuze has
> captured from spinoza.  Much of it seems to point towards that vista
> of spinoza's "tripple illusion" (Ethics) that tries to describe a
> scenario of how consciousness could arise from unconsciousness. that's
> the vista hwenk drove through.
>
> ch.2 of "...practical philosophy" gets into this question.
> essentially, what is "unknown" to thought, yet what also "drives"
> thought, is an activity of potential, since consciousness can not be
> assured, yet "being driven" surely can. he describes a world where
> bodies are constantly entering into "new composition" with each other,
> causing us sadness/joy as they do. As the "triple illusion" clarifies,
> the experience of sadness/joy is an indication that one has become
> emotionally aware of "becoming." but this is not influencing "conatus"
> yet, it certainly has that potential once the triple illusion is
> enacted. after finding some parallelism that is consciousness arises
> >from 1) inventing a finality which comes out of mistaking effects for
> causes, 2) assuming freedom which comes out of pretending to have
> power over those bodies, and 3) invoking a transcendental assumption,
> ie god.
>
> if you subscribe to neurological descriptions for "reason giving"
> (there are lots of experiements to look at, notably current ones that
> focus on economic choices) you will see a parallel here that shows
> higher brain functions following behind the lower. "reasons given"
> occur after the fact and are often even unrelated to "action taken".
> The vista shows that what is expressed as consciousness is not the
> actual driver, and when it is given as a "reason for" being driven,
> such explanations are self-illusions, and it gets interesting once
> these illusions are harnessed to drive further bodies of becoming.
>
> I see here language suffering, that language which connects internal
> emotional roles and  external social bodiy extentions. It is full of
> falseness and confusion and gives rise to the rhetoric of reason.
> -cb
> _______________________________________________
> List address: deleuze-guattari-AT-driftline.org
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