From: "hwenk" <hwenk-AT-web.de>
To: <deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org>
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 01:14:27 +0200
Subject: Re: [D-G] its


Hello Dr. cb,

When I said from stone age, I meant about 100 000 years b.c
or even bevor that, from the time
where man were hunters and and collectors,
eaters of found fuits. This is time enough
to let it go, even by Darwian devices,  into the genes concerning the brain
in form of some instinct, which can be overrun
by neocortex structures, but this cost efforts and learning.


This corresponds a little to the
partition of the brain, some parts are common to all mamalians,
so some are more primitive older, more instinc like.

The neurological brain machines going by steps are of
course pulsed by brain cycles, so going by steps, the release of
neurotransmitters
is also in a sequence way, but from simulatious synapses.

So, a little, I am pointimng at the "homo natura",
which is invoked, the brain as a biolgical basis
and being, which has cultutral possibilties of
forming and being formed, with yoga also at relativly deep
biological levels.
The homo natura is the material basis of a world culture - and humanism in
old fashion way  of speaking.

In my eyes it was an right attempt of D&G
to remind a little at this biological basis
of man, which of course had a wide variance,
but there is of course biological heritage.
This reflects also in the neuroitransmitters, which production
is governed by the cell chemistry from the genes
and especially the RNA, which
is not so much, in its qualitativ, machine structure,
to be influences as one likes.

That was a little difference concerning the Body without organs
as a "social form".
My pont of view, amplified by the usage of herbs and yoga
in the stone age, was that there
is biological production of neurotransmitters,
also in stages, which can be started, stabilized and controlled by well
known techniques
and possibly by some herbs.
As your discussion on peyotl shows, the latter point
is as affirmated by you.
The function of drugs, medical or not,
is very
much due to the biological aspects of man.

So, there are well known techniques concerning the BWO
and also some culture, mostly among religious parctices - up to now.
As you know, Foucault researches on monastry practices,
in his history of sexuality series,
but I think concerning BWO production, some other cultures
India,  and possibly even the Middle esast, also Shamanism,
seem to have a much more uncorrupted and target oriented
approach concerning BWO production techniques - based on biological human
properties.

This is an argument for very strong "poststructural"
amalgation from different cultures.


This has little been, done,
the integration of indian philosophy and psychology, also there
are some works, is very little.
For medicin, psychology and also from philosophy.
To be a little harsh, instead of
philosphising a lot about Eurocentrism,
an effectiuve taking seriously and building
in parts of other cultures, especially in psychology and
philosphoy, would have been much more effective.
I am strongly convinced, that Aristoteles
thinking about the soul is very influenced by other cultures,
especially from India - as  Alexander the great has been there for example.

Also there had been some Indian "Fakirs" in Athen, who let burn themselves
without any fear, very impressive at that time, -
maybe this influencend the argument in favour of the immortality  of the
soul
by fearlessness of Socrates in the "Phaidon".

The last famous attempts to integrate INdian philosphy were from
Schopenhauer and Deussen.
Nowadays there are much more and better possibilities,
due to the increase of knowledge.
And western people would benefit a lot.
Eastern also, making the insistance
on the plausible and
tested by a lot of experience parts of their culture
compatible with western thinking, therby avoiding
the strong cultural splits.
The indian economist SEN
seess the strong sticking to the religious culture
as a very big obstacle for the developpment
of the India.
I think, it is a very healthy and good
motive of "Poststructuralism" to break
these cultural "systems" into compatible,
very useful and creative pieces.
But, in  "theoretical" practice,
there has not happened much - in my eyes.


But, there is a lot of freedom concerning rhythums
and contents of human thinking and feeling,
leaving more and more the bonds
of biological heritage, there we agree.



greetings and good night

Harld Wenk



-----Original Message-----
From: deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org
[mailto:deleuze-guattari-bounces-AT-lists.driftline.org]On Behalf Of
.+oot8am wakeup
Sent: Freitag, 29. Juni 2007 23:03
To: deleuze-guattari-AT-lists.driftline.org
Subject: Re: [D-G] its


the 1..2...3.. or even 4.. 5.... etc, in this case I'm not describing
territorialized time(chronos) They are yet not part of a seq but just
sets of neuro-machinery. they are the elements of a whole machine
which is comprised of parts that can re-combine like (3!) 3x2x1=6,
where 6 is all the virtual oedipal possibilities. (nothing in the head
is mechanistic really so these are only systemic suggestions still
before moving forward into chonological territory)

I am aware of a few "narrative" interpretations of "Dont Eat theFruit"
but they are all limited by signage, choosing a meaningful allegory.
All of that is "higher-up" psychology and not biological. Given the
time and place of this narrative (9000bc?), you are probably correct,
and I can see perhaps the message reflects that transition towards
totalitarian agriculture and the worries of people who oppose that
transition away from their stable permaculture. (still an issue today
as we face ecological meltdown) But as a pure narrative the symbolism
is not necessarily part of its basic function.  There is a more
fundamental impression, that of patterns/pulses discussed by pinhas
and deleuze, which seizes our biology to create territory with which
those symbols can later associate.  Its not just for music, but in any
"forms" (particularly I'm thinking about those described in
aristotle's poetics and in the commedia)  where the rhythm of these
narrative patterns seizes our attention.  So your concern about the
brain "already functioning" is totally valid and since that is the
more complicated scheme, I wanted to deal with a "blank" example
before attempting to describe one that involves a chronos, ei before &
after. But its the same thing really. Say with our scheme of 3 (dont,
eat, thefruit), you see any pattern of elements will combine with an
"already functioning" neurology, its just to trace those combinations
one would have to determine the internal pulse which interpret the
incoming peel. So Dante can set up an elaborate narrative form that
"readies" the italian reader for his christian message that he can
deliver faithfully encapsulated inside the "already" formed neurology,
like a primer coat before actual color paint is applied. This is like
those tv adverts that chime in at opportune moments of a Jamesbond
flick.
cb
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