To: <puptcrit-AT-lists.driftline.org>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 17:25:47 -0400
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Differences between Clays...


>Ahhh, I see, so why not coat the plaster "plug" with a Vinyl spray before
applying the clay...would be a lot easier than mucking around adding oil and
stuff to "refresh" your Plastalina. Again when finished simply rub the plug
over with your hand and viola it is removed
-----

Hi Daniel

Anything I've tried so far failed miserably:
-shellac, diluted or not
-white glue, diluted or not
-liquid beeswax
-vaseline, heated or not
-mineral oil
-waterbased plaster scealer
-waterbased all-purpose sealer
-shoe polish (heck, it's wax based)

After a day of use, they all can be rubbed off with the fingers, nothing so 
far works.

The oil-clay simply pulls the sealer into itself, revealing the plaster 
again, and the leeching starts.
There must be some influence from the pushing and pulling I do when 
sculpting the clay.
What I need to use is something that will really seal the plaster deeply, 
and won't contaminate my clay with something that would change it's 
properties for the worse.

Soon I will try switching to ultracal (harder, less dusty, pores seem 
finer), and I will also try soap as a sealer. Conditioninng the clay I have 
right now is necessary no matter if I use it over the plaster.
It is a bit too hard to work with. I am surpised at this, as this is sold a 
kid's play clay. How can they play with it if it is so hard to shape, 
especially in the winter (indoors, for the smart-a*** who might want to 
comment).
and this conditionning only takes half an hour and a real small amount of 
heavy mineral oil.
It's worth the trouble if it saves so much money.

I understand that it is much better to invest in the perfect Roma Plastalina 
that will last over 20 years, but when you dom't have the money to buy more 
than 5 packages of it when you actually need fifteen, the choice is obvious.
------------


> As to the rest...... I didnt realise you lived in such a clean dust free
> environment...going outside must be a real trauma for you, but I cant
> understand how you think a water based clay can remove the oil from your
> skin (it cant)

Uh, where did that come from?
Why does it seem that you are accusing me of hyponcondriacism and an 
aquarium mentality?
I love the outdoors, I love getting messy. Heck, I catch germs on purpose, 
just for fun(and for the immune system)! I have so much paint and glue on my 
work clothes that can almost stand up withot me in them.

If the following seems a bit aggressive, well, that's just how I feel in 
reaction to what I read.
Maybe I am overreacting. I have been known to do that. I'm human.

Do I need to be even more verbose than usual when I write everything?
I try to be more concise nowadays, so I did not mention (again) that I work 
in the same big room that I sleep in.

So ANY dust, ANY leftover fumes, any messy thing (albeit totally clean in 
terms of health, like natural clays) have to be avoided. Noy to mention that 
cleaning up takes a lot of time off my working.
My hands do get dry and crack from using the potters clays,and I don't care 
what's causing it right now. Possibly the fact that the hands keep moist for 
so long.
There is sillica in the clays I've used so far, and I have gotten sick at 
some point because I was in a small bedroom sleeping next to my mask forms 
of natrural clays. Never again. Live and learn from getting yourself hurt.
(more stories about that later, scroll down for shocking school stories)
-----------------

>Who has EVER used a
> release agent for organic clay and plaster?????
Pardon my ignorance, but I always have, because that's what I read and was 
told about it.
I'm guilty for not having access to good teaching facilities, and guilty for 
being poor enough to not be able to order every book or video course out 
there. But I'm also "guilty" of trying to learn on my own, with my mistakes 
and fixing them, and asking for advice when I can.
Our public library system has no real interest in getting more art technique 
books, so our inventory is ridiculous.

My main source of learning, besides learning on my own, is the internet. 
Without it, I wouldn't know most of the stuff I practice.

Now if you tell me that waterbased "natural" clays don't need a release 
agent to release "perfectly" clean, with no step of washing the mold 
afterwards, I'm thrilled, and I thank you for your advice.

And Daniel, please stop assuming (if that is what you are doing) that I am a 
COMPLETE ignorant. I know what water is, I have a great spray bottle, and I 
always used to keep my clay sculpture moist.
No matter how you sculpt, there is always dust on the work table, from the 
bits of clay you drop at the cleaning up sculpting stage, etc. Now I just 
use a product that makes all these time-consumers go away, as thousands of 
artists have done since the oil-based clays have been invented.
If you don't like oil-based clays, it's your right and choice. Please 
respect mine.
----------------


(just read if you like getting scared)
HEALTH ISSUES: HORROR STORIES FROM ART SCHOOLS
The schools I went to, including Fine Art University, were full of carefree 
"teachers" who rarely thought us a thing about safety. We were thought 
encaustics and the teacher was splashing his own version of the stuff 
(margerine consistency) around with his bare hands! We had painting studios 
with barely any ventilation. At 30 students in a class, headaches were 
frequent. In printmaking class, everything was loose until a student dropped 
a bottle of acid (nitric?) on the floor, splashing her eye. Nobody knew what 
to do, and the teacher just froze. I evacuated the class by insisting and 
going over the teacher's authority (she wanted to keep working).
We had had a mandatory visit of the studios at beggining of classes so the 
victim took jerself to the eye shower before we could do anything about it. 
there was acid everywhere, and only a few of us could smell it. Later that 
week, my girlfriend's bag had a hole in it.
The "victim"'s eye healed well, thanks to her quick thinking.

The traditionnal art materials-making course's studio was famous for being 
the most toxic place on campus. Despite that, there was a long waiting list 
of students wanting to take this highly sought-after class. I can understand 
the allure of learning to make one's own art supplies.
I'm kinda glad today that I was not able to attend this class.

That university was maybe VERY dangerous, but SOME teachers and  techs were 
working hard (against management sometimes) to improve things as best they 
could. They told us stories about what it had been before...shudders!

We had protective masks with appropriate selection of cartridges on sale on 
campus, with a specialist to fit it to our face at the beginning of the 
school year. Some course made the masks mandatory, but the mandatory stopped 
at "buying the mask". Rarely did I see one in class, with the exception of 
when were were using smelly products. Some people only get worried of the 
toxic when it smells toxic.











Mathieu René Créaturiste
Marionnettes, Masques, Etcetera...
Puppets, Masks, Etcetera...
www.creaturiste.com
creaturiste-AT-magma.ca
(514) 274-8027
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kismet" <kismet-AT-bigpond.net.au>
To: <puptcrit-AT-lists.driftline.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Differences between Clays...


> Ahhh, I see, so why not coat the plaster "plug" with a Vinyl spray before
> applying the clay...would be a lot easier than mucking around adding oil 
> and
> stuff to "refresh" your Plastalina. Again when finished simply rub the 
> plug
> over with your hand and viola it is removed....for that matter a thin 
> layer
> of latex painted on might work too?
> As to the rest...... I didnt realise you lived in such a clean dust free
> environment...going outside must be a real trauma for you, but I cant
> understand how you think a water based clay can remove the oil from your
> skin (it cant) and yet happily slap hydrocarbons all over the place to
> remove an oil based substance from your hands and Stains? have you ever 
> got
> latex on your shirt? and youre worried about some mud? Who has EVER used a
> release agent for organic clay and plaster????? Why would you??? Maybe 
> THAT
> was your problem, I occasionally use Vinyl spray when making a latex mold 
> on
> clay to stop mud penetrating the latex if I get too physical applying it 
> but
> not always and God invented the $1 spray mist bottle to stop clay from
> drying too quick, cracking, creating dust (if thats a concern) and going
> hard. I wouldnt use organic clay for papier mache without a layer of 
> plastic
> film and to wash your hands and surfaces of organic clay? just use fresh,
> clean (and some may say God given) pure water....beautiful.
> Extra tip: oil/solvent based dirt on the hands? I reach for the clothes
> washing powder if I dont have a proprietary soap handy (Salvol, handicleen
> etc). Moisten and use as a scrub then rinse...exfoliates as you clean!
>
> D.
>
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