From: "steve abrams" <sapuppets-AT-gmail.com>
To: <puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:10:55 -0500
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Risks


Tim
I think restating your question would help
A number of your word choices have made it hard for me to respond.

This will be a bit of rant and a bit of a ramble

In the early 30s Remo Bufano used ten foot puppets for a production of 
Oedipus.

After he did that- was anyone else's use of large puppets "pioneering'?

What could be more "legit" than Shakespeare.
>From time to time Mid Summer or Tempest have used puppetry.
Is that pioneering? Is it pioneering each time? Is it risk taking?
Trying puppetry for either of those plays seems perfectly sensible.


Last night I saw something astonishing. A broadway musical that presented 
perplexing grown up questions- and offered no easy answers.(no puppets in 
it)
The show was 38 years old. Is is pioneering? Is any revival pioneering? For 
me it was powerful theatre-
I dont care whether it was pioneering or cutting edge or pushing the 
enveloped.
It did  what grown up theatre is supposed to do. It held my attention. It 
surprised me. It made me think,  and most of all it grabbed me emotionally 
and would not let go.

I might be hitting you over the head with this "pioneering" word because I 
dont think it is an especially useful discussion

Mostly in response to your second question_
In the 1970s there was an explosion of experimental theatre
Out of that wonderful time came Lee Breuer (Mabou Mines) and Charles Ludlam.
Both loved puppets. The concepts have that era have slowly but surely 
trickled into more mainstream theatre.
I think more and more audiences are becoming accustomed to seeing puppets as 
part of "legit" theatre

There is a great show called Forbidden Broadway. In this show every new 
trend and star is cheerly ridiculed.
A few years ago they added two songs that mocked all the puppetry that was 
showing up on Broadway stages.

Being mocked in that manner is a clear indication that puppetry had 
"arrived."
At the moment puppets are cool. Does that mean acceptance or does that mean 
puppets in theatre are just the fashion of the moment?

I have a fear that this might be a fad.

There was a 10 year period where all of the sudden it was cool to be dancer 
or choreographer.
Dancers were in newspapers and TV It was glamorous
Grant givers couldnt give away money fast enough to modern dance companies.

Then it all stopped. There is still a lot of fine dance around- but it 
doesnt make headlines and it doesnt get grants.
Foir a brief moment dance captured the attention of a larger part of the 
cultrually appreciative public (always a small group)  and then the interest 
shrunk to a much smaller dedicated group

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Puppetry Arts Theatre" <info-AT-puppetryarts.org>
To: <puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Risks


> NOOOOO
> Your totally missing the point.
> Its not bout "being" risky.. The question was:
>
> 1) how is (using) puppetry in legitimate theatre (not a small kids theatre
> upstate new york that has birthday parties on weekends) pioneering or risk
> taking?
> (I suggested that the technology is pioneering new ways to tell
> stories/performances in legitimate theatre)
>
> And the second question was...
>
> 2) How can puppetry- used in legitimate theatre- be impacting if at all?
>
> You guys are totally missing the point. I don't know if I cud project it
> better.. Hmmmm.. Let me think on it n see if I can revise the question 
> cause
> its seems that the critters are getting antsy about it.
>
>
> On 2/21/08 6:02 PM, "Michael Richardson" <zenchops59-AT-yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> What is risky ( content wize ) in one part of the country might well be 
>> blase'
>> in LA or New York. Honestly I'm following this thread, feeling like I'm
>> missing something. Could someone please  give this troglodyte some kind 
>> of
>> example of what would pass for "risky" in the first place ?  A 
>> performance
>> using kitty cat corpses? Performed at a PETA convention ? Is this what we 
>> mean
>> by this word ?
>>   Michael
>>
>> Alan Cook <alangregorycook-AT-msn.com> wrote:
>>   Tim:
>> You are interested in anyone's thoughts????
>>
>> I took a risk in sending you mine.
>>
>> I think you need to think harder about the original question.
>>
>> You now suggest the answer is at the technical end. I do not think so.
>>
>> Technical stuff is only interesting if used for a purpose. And only YOU 
>> can
>> answer what is that purpose? What do YOU want to present to the audience? 
>> WHY
>> are you a puppeteer? Others may have a different reason---especially if 
>> they
>> are looking for groundbreaking stuff.
>>
>> You asked a subjective question.
>>
>> How would YOU answer it? (no peeking at the other students' answers)
>>
>> ALAN
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: The Puppetry Arts Theatre
>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:31 PM
>> To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
>> Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] The risk of it all...
>>
>> No you still didn't answer the question.
>>
>> Nothing to do with a grant- just that the reply I got was not a mature or
>> professional one. And I was hoping id get one. Just to see a point of 
>> view
>> other then mine.
>>
>> Re think about the questions---- how is using puppetry pioneering OR risk
>> taking in todays theatre.
>>
>> Don't jump to the superficial "oh risk is in my heart'. How is it
>> pioneering- if at all? Is it pushing the boundaries of theatre- if at 
>> all?
>>
>> I think its a technical thing, myself...the technology to do the 
>> "whatever."
>>
>> And the second question....how is puppetry impacting?
>>
>> Again- I don't want some hobbiest answer of "it makes a child cry" I want 
>> to
>> know your thots about its impact. Socially?? Does it change the way 
>> theatre
>> is done? Can an adult audience appreciate it more or less? Does it take 
>> more
>> technology to make that so?
>>
>> Lets talk THAT... Im very interested in everyone's professional thots
>>
>> :)
>>
>>
>> On 2/21/08 2:35 PM, "Alan Cook" wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Tim---if you want a "serious answer" you also need to recognize it 
>>> as
>>> such. Risk is in the eye of the risker. What is risky for one of 
>>> sheltered
>>> background is not risky for an adventurous soul. "Risk" is a very 
>>> relative
>>> term.
>>>
>>> Your original question did not say ANYTHING about grants. There is no 
>>> risk in
>>> applying for a grant, but you have to look at it from the grantor's 
>>> viewpoint
>>> (often very limited outlook and non-risky).
>>>
>>> Also, is the project defned by the grantor, and if so would you be 
>>> interested
>>> in spending time on it?
>>>
>>> Also consider doing whatever it takes to get a first grant so you have
>>> something to build on. Often grantors will accept supplemental material
>>> (newspaper/magazine coverage, CDs, DVDs, etc.) which indicate you have
>>> qualifications. All too often the perameters of a specific grant are too
>>> limiting for puppeteers.
>>>
>>> ALAN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: The Puppetry Arts Theatre
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:34 AM
>>> To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] The risk of it all...
>>>
>>> That answer does not award you a grant.
>>> If u wanna take it serious, answer the question.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/21/08 12:24 PM, "Alan Cook" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Risk is relative.
>>>>
>>>> Why did the chicken cross the road? For the excitement of the risk 
>>>> factor.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: The Puppetry Arts Theatre
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:49 AM
>>>> To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
>>>> Subject: [Puptcrit] The risk of it all...
>>>>
>>>> Two questions for you puppet lovers out there...
>>>>
>>>> This is in reference to THEATRE- NOT children's theatre, not movies or 
>>>> TV.
>>>>
>>>> 1- how is using puppetry pioneering or risk taking in today's 
>>>> traditional
>>>> theatre? Does it push boundaries?
>>>>
>>>> 2- how is using puppetry in today's traditional theatre Impacting to an
>>>> audience?
>>>>
>>>> Im interested in anyone's thots.....
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>> www.puppetryarts.org
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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