File puptcrit/puptcrit.0803, message 114


To: <puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 08:41:14 +1000
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Principles of Puppetry


And where would we be if Van Gough, Modigliani (sp!) the impressionists, the 
fauves and the whoeverists HADNT followed basic conventions...Gesso the 
canvas or base and ensure that it isnt too flexible, dont put texture 
mediums over an oil base, dont put acrylics over oil paints...unless you 
want the acrylics to crack and flake and dont use oil paints to "glue" 
elements to the canvass (just ask Jackson Pollock collectors why not!)
Aesthetic conventions? OK Picasso and the cubists sort of challenged 
perspective conventions to a degree, not really though and I could be wrong 
but I cant think of a single artist or painting that ever challenged 
relative colour theory, ie light to the front, dark to the back, red is 
"closer" than green etc.
I guess we just arent as out there as we like to think.

D.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Menke" <jim99jr-AT-gmail.com>
To: <puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Principles of Puppetry


> Not to get picky, just an observation, when you mention cooking as a
> science, how many wonderful cooks give directions by saying a pinch of 
> this
> or a drop of that. It is frustrating when trying to duplicate one of their
> recipes.
>
> And would we have Van Gough, Modigliani (sp?) or the impressionists if 
> they
> followed the rules?
>
>
>
> I'm not talking mysterious "sayings", I'm looking for simple efficient 
> rules
>> that we all use, consciously or not.
>>
>> Music did not lose its soul when a code was implemented to write it down.
>> It
>> has flourished!
>> Cooking is now a science, and all the time we can discover new flavors
>> because people have and are thinking about it, studying it, making it 
>> more
>> varied, paving the way for better!
>> Painting has codes of color, composition, perspective, texture, lighting,
>> sfumato (etc), and all these have been passed down, so that today,
>> painters
>> have all these tools to create mind boggling pieces of visual!
>>
>> Puppetry is capable of fusing various artforms into a kinetic,
>> life-emoting
>> object that can teach, entertain,  enlighten.
>> If the Arts we use for Puppetry have their own sets of conventions, then
>> logically, Puppetry must use them.
>> More precisely, Puppetry has its own needs because it has its own
>> purposes.
>> So there must be specific conventions for Puppetry.
>>
>> Let's keep the ideas coming, we can discuss and debate them, who knows
>> what
>> inspiration will come out of it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kismet" <kismet-AT-bigpond.net.au>
>> To: <puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Principles of Puppetry
>>
>>
>> >I think we are missing the point here....again...... Mathieu is asking 
>> >us
>> >to
>> > nominate some principles that guide us in our craft, I think we call
>> them
>> > conventions. Id like to jump on my high horse and say that Im not bound
>> by
>> > principles and protocols but I am! So here are a few that I
>> utilise...not
>> > because they bind me but because communication is founded on agreed
>> > principles or conventions and the audience has learnt culturally to
>> > recognise these semiotics so it actually frees me. . . . .
>> > I always use blue light to represent night. Any one not? Its a readily
>> > accepted convention or principle.Why? Why does red mean stop, green 
>> > mean
>> > go
>> > and blue mean night?
>> > My "cute" characters have large eyes and small mouths.....nearly every
>> > culture observes that convention as well as round faces, large eyes and
>> a
>> > big mouth means a gregarious character.......why?
>> > My mean characters have thin lips, sharp noses and narrow eyes..... for
>> > over
>> > 400 years this convention has been observed in Commedia.
>> > IMHO Proportionally correct characters dont read very well in
>> > puppetry......
>> > I tend to make the head and the hands somewhat larger than the body and
>> > legs
>> > because to me that reads better....its a convention that I have
>> > adapted......
>> > When building sets I always exagerate the perspective and shorten the
>> > vanishing points....gives a set more depth in tight spaces.....
>> > I often, but not always, borrow from the animators/cartoonists
>> convention
>> > of
>> > only having three fingers or even mitten glove hands ie a thumb and a
>> flat
>> > pad instead of fingers.......Jim Henson also borrowed this
>> > convention........
>> > Plenty of other examples but I think most will be getting the drift.
>> > Of course these arent absolutes...there are never absolutes but a
>> > compendium
>> > of conventions may...or may not....be useful......well maybe for a
>> > beginner...or out of curiosity...it would be helpful to have an
>> > explanation
>> > of WHY we do what we do......
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Daniel
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Katy Lloyd" <idlekaty-AT-googlemail.com>
>> > To: <puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:19 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Principles of Puppetry
>> >
>> >
>> >> I'm afraid I have to agree with Jim here. There are many students on 
>> >> my
>> >> modelmaking course who are very knowledgable about SFX, but it doesn't
>> >> make
>> >> them any better at what they do. The more talented ones just tend to
>> get
>> >> on
>> >> with it, being inspired not by study, but by simply whatever captures
>> >> their
>> >> imagination, and having the common sense to to be able to honestly
>> judge
>> >> their own work. I get annoyed at those who obsess with their 
>> >> research -
>> >> their work always looks like a rip-off of someone else's work (Jim
>> >> Henson,
>> >> Tim Burton, etc). It's good to be inspired by others, but I believe
>> good,
>> >> exciting work comes mostly from within.
>> >> Anyway, puppetry, like any art, is completely subjective. You can't
>> write
>> >> a
>> >> list of rules for something which is different for everyone - if I had
>> a
>> >> personal list, number 1 would be "Be Original", yet it wouldn't make
>> >> sense
>> >> to tell this to someone who wishes to make traditional marionettes,
>> >> because
>> >> they would have their own set rules to follow to recreate the
>> >> authenticity.
>> >> Puppetry is all about visual communication, something which should 
>> >> come
>> >> naturally to us, it is intuitive. At university, we had to take some
>> >> lessons
>> >> explaining the theories of communication. Perhaps I am stubborn, but I
>> >> found
>> >> these lectures tiresome and pointless - surely if you are in the
>> business
>> >> of
>> >> making models and puppets, one should already know how to bloody
>> >> communicate! Else no amount of study will help you.
>> >> Hope I didn't offend anyone.
>> >> Katy
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> http://katy.idlecreations.com/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Jim Menke wrote:
>> >>> >Thinking of principals as we work and perform can take all the joy
>> out
>> >>> >of
>> >>> our profession. Sure we have to do good work but to obsessed by it 
>> >>> can
>> >>> ruin
>> >>> it.  ----------
>> >>>
>> >>> Jim, I agree that obsesssing over and anylising everything can ruin
>> >>> things
>> >>> (been guilty of that), but as in most things, moderation is a must.
>> >>> Without
>> >>> studies, how can we rethink what we do, and make it better?
>> >>> Some of us go at it very mentally, some do it physically, learning by
>> >>> process.
>> >>> I seek balance, and for me, it comes only with a bit of both: study
>> and
>> >>> doing.
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List address: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> JIM MENKE PUPPETS
> open your mind
> fantasies unwind
>
> www.jimmenkepuppets.com
> _______________________________________________
> List address: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
> Admin interface: http://lists.puptcrit.org/mailman/listinfo/puptcrit
> Archives: http://www.driftline.org 

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