Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:49:50 -0500
From: Hobey Ford <hobeyone-AT-gmail.com>
To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] a Hobby Profession


Hobby profession.  sorry couldn't resist.


On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Hobey Ford <hobeyone-AT-gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't have a problem with it. =A0I just spell it different.
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> Hobey.
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> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 7:19 PM, =A0<puppetpro-AT-aol.com> wrote:
>> Christopher mentioned that this is a "hobby profession". That phrase caught me. There are always people who look at this as something to do with their "free time" -- I met a man recently who, after retiring as a cabinet maker, started making marionettes. He isn't really interested in performing them. He isn't even interested in selling them to performers. He wants to do it because of the challenge, wood-working-wise.
>> Then there are the multitudes of people who come in and out of puppetry -- artists or actors or directors or storytellers wanting to use puppetry, teachers wanting to use it, therapists wanting to use it. Puppetry lends itself to many degrees of professionalism.
>>
>>
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>> Then, there are professional puppeteers who find they need to do something else in order to pay the bills.
>>
>> Sometimes I think that there is a cosmic formula for balancing one's art with one's business. Like the second law of thermodynamics or relativity or the Pythagorean theorem. If I could discover it, wow! I'd be rolling in the (play) dough!
>>
>> =A0=A0 Rolande
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brad Shur <mr_utamaro-AT-hotmail.com>
>> To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
>> Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 4:57 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] free shows
>>
>>
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>> Here's why I think myself and others tend to bristle at requests for freevery
>> limited market shows.
>>
>> We work in a very limited market. Dentists cater to anyone who has teeth,
>> grocers to anyone who likes to eat. In puppetry we have the combination of20very
>> few likely customers and not a lot of money per show. Even the best professional
>> live puppeteers out there are not swimming in the moolah.
>>
>> (some) Possible venues:
>> Schools + Cultural centers= Declining budgets
>> Private parties= Very elastic with the demand, and often not a high paying gig
>> Events
>>
>> Of the large public events that might hire a puppeteer, a good chunk of them can
>> be described as some kind of charity or non-profit.
>>
>> But these events are one of a very limited number of places that puppeteers can
>> perform. When people set the precedent of doing free shows, they narrow an
>> already very small market for everyone. Of course this is no reason to be rude,
>> the presenter isn't thinking in those terms, but it isn't just the equivalent of
>> asking a dentist to donate a day of his time, it's like asking a walrus dentist
>> to treat one of the very few walrus's in town for free.
>>
>> B. Shur
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: heyhoot-AT-mindspring.com
>>> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 13:46:29 -0500
>>> To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] free shows
>>>
>>> You know, I never thought I'd be arguing FOR free shows, but that's
>>> what I find myself doing lately. No, I'm not talking about giving them
>>> away at the drop of a hat, or for every event that you are "invited" to
>>> participate in, but there are plenty of legitimate times when it is
>>> acceptable to give it away. Does it devalue you or your show, or imply
>>> that you have little regard for the value of your=2
>> 0own work. Not
>>> necessarily. One must choose carefully and require some proper
>>> treatment and respect in return for the value you are offering.
>>>
>>> As for trading or asking someone, like a plumber, to trade or give you
>>> their services, I'm finding this a bit trite. I know in this economy
>>> even those of us who are for profit businesses are feeling pretty non
>>> profit right now, but why in the world would you feel that this is
>>> equivalent to a CHARITY asking for a free show? And if you are a
>>> charity, shouldn't you feel more inclined to give as you are given?
>>> Sorry, I'm just not getting this.
>>>
>>> I can't imagine say Home Depot calling and asking for a free show for
>>> their employee party, but they might call and ask you to do a free show
>>> for a charity they are involved with. In this case they might be
>>> funding various aspects, but the show would be in support of the
>>> charity. In that case I'd consider whether I wanted to support that
>>> charity through a show. I might also ask if they would sponsor the show
>>> (so I'd be paid) but I don't think I would say "well, would you give me
>>> free lumber and tools to build my next show?" =A0I'm not really that into
>>> barter, and I think it off track to the spirit of charity.
>>>
>>> Someone please explain the concept of demanding services or goods just
>>> because you are an artist. The concept just isn't sinking through my
>>> thick skull. I've been a pr
>> ofessional entertainer (artist?) for going
>>> on 30 years now and I can't imagine making that request or demand,
>>> though I confess I have thought about bartering for services or goods
>>> from time to time.
>>>
>>> Finally, why do artists feel so put upon with these requests? It's not
>>> like we're the only ones getting these requests. Haven't you ever
>>> turned on PBS or NPR? They ask every one equally, and people give
>>> according to their own abilities. The telethons ask everyone. Most
>>> charities ask everyone. Why are we so superior that what we have to
>>> offer is either above the value that can be given, or we feel that if
>>> we contribute our time that time and/or service is no longer valuable?
>>> It just isn't so. BTW, I checked with a non profit and I was told that
>>> if I gave a show they could give me a letter thanking me for the
>>> contribution. They could not put a value on it, but if I could
>>> substantiate its value (I imagine by other paying contracts) it could
>>> be claimed as a charitable contribution. You might have to prove it to
>>> the IRS if they challenged it, but that's another issue to debate
>>> another time.
>>>
>>> I no longer see a few requests for a free show as a problem. A plague
>>> of call, maybe, but a few calls, no. I only have to deal with them on
>>> an individual basis. Either I am inclined to support or I am not. If I
>>> am so inclined, can I fit it in my calendar and do I WANT
>> =A0to do it. If
>>> I am not inclined to support it, I know how to say politely decline.
>>>
>>> Christopher
>>>
>>> On Mar 4, 2009, at 11:56 PM, Charles Taylor wrote:
>>>
>>> > Puppeteers receiving calls for free shows is not a new problem, though
>>> > it may be new to those that have had not enough years experience with
>>> > these sorts of request.
>>> >
>>> > Professionals in the field of various arts that I have known =A0have
>>> > always adamantly refused to give their work for free for any reason.
>>> > The general attitude was that if the artist had little regard for the
>>> > value of his or her own =A0work, who else would?
>>> >
>>> > Ask a plumber if he will trade his services for yours. You might be
>>> > lucky and hit the jackpot. =A0I badly need my twenty year old van worked
>>> > on. Do you think I could ask my mechanic to take charity on an aging
>>> > and
>>> > impoverished puppeteer?
>>> >
>>> > If you would like to read an in-depth discussion on this subject check
>>> > out the Punch Booth: This was discussed last summer and fall at great
>>> > length showing it is a universal quandary.
>>> >
>>> > Charles
>>>
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