To: <puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 13:55:46 -0400
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Nightingale in Toronto: Lepage and Curry



Thios is absolutely fascinating!

I love the variety of approcahes and opinions that have been displayed here.
I hope to see even more.

When I watched the Michael Curry intervew and heard his comments about his 
preferences working with actors and dancers, it of course triggered some 
kind of outrage within.
A tiny ego attack, an easily overlooked irritation at most.
But then I was pulled back by his way of telling it, and his explanation of 
it.
Yes, his wording might be a tad unfortunate, but I believe he spoke from the 
heart, and not from any kind of snobbism.

Bring on the diversity of approaches, keep astounding me with originality, 
and I'll be constantly fueled by Puppetry, the art of integration! I'll be 
pushed to challenge myself as a builder and a performer.

I've only been in Puppetry for 10 years. I first started as a puppet builder 
exclusively, but eventually was pulled in by the performing aspect. The more 
I learn, the less I feel I know, considering the massive wingspan of 
Puppetry.
Most puppeteers I've met had backgrounds in no way limited to Puppetry.
Many actors, many dancers, two marching band musicians, a few clowns, 
storytellers,  circus performers.

Performers.
That is the single unifiying element.
I'm thrilled when I see it all together in a puppet show. Everyone can bring 
their own flavor, expertise, approach to the creation.

Life is diversity. Puppetry must reflect that.
Or else it denies its origin and its message.








----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Frith" <hb-AT-compnet.co.uk>
To: <puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Nightingale in Toronto: Lepage and Curry


> Geoffrey, I couldn't agree more.
> Simple, even crude, puppetry can be extremely powerful; amazing,
> brilliantly articulated puppet manipulation can ultimately be deadly
> dull. It all depends on the context, and that context is that
> puppetry, like opera and drama, is a performance; a piece of theatre.
> Theatre is about communicating emotion, meaning, feeling, narrative
> and life, not technique.
> Bob Frith
> Horse + Bamboo Theatre
>
>
> On 4 Oct 2009, at 18:26, Geoffrey Navias wrote:
>
>>> I've been trying to resist getting drawn into this thread, and I
>>> don't
>>> want to take sides, especially the "other" side BUT...
>>>
>>> Though I don't fully agree with the reluctance to hire puppeteers,
>>> I do
>>> understand it to a large degree.
>>
>>
>> Dear Christopher,
>>
>> Thanks for jumping in.  Though the issue of hiring puppeteers is what
>> sparked the conversation, it pulls other conversations to the
>> forefront.
>>
>> I continue to experience a large disconnect between the puppetry
>> world here
>> in the United States and the theater world. Just as a comparison, my
>> experiences in Russia startled me when we had great theater
>> directors coming
>> and seeing our work. The Russian company that we collaborated with
>> had at
>> least 16 performers and they were equally trained both as actors and
>> puppeteers.
>>
>> I come to this work with an interest in theater, public ritual,
>> ethnology,
>> art and community.  Whether doing a full stage opera, street
>> theater, or
>> small intimate children's productions, I use a range of tools
>> including
>> masks, puppets, music, light, words,  movement etc.  I do have an
>> interest
>> in puppets as objects in the same way as I have a real interest in
>> sculpture.  But I am much more interested in what we do with it in a
>> context.  And so I am much more interested in bringing a story (or
>> experience) to life than brining an object to life.  When what moves
>> the
>> story forward best is the spectacular articulation of the object to
>> life,
>> than a great puppeteer can't be beat. But there is terrific theater
>> and
>> puppetry that is not based on this.
>>
>> To me puppetry is the process of creating a rich and full symbolic
>> "language" utilizing objects ... symbolically imbedding those
>> objects with
>> life, and fully exploring that language in a theatrical form to
>> further
>> articulate the story, mystery, pain, and wonder of our human
>> experiences.
>>
>> I think Bread and Puppet is a great example of some truly remarkable
>> work
>> with a great deal of attention to the objects, images, cohesive
>> symbolic
>> language, and theater staging... minimal interest in articulation
>> artistry
>> to give the illusion of life to the object. (Though Linda Elbow or
>> John Bell
>> could more legitimately voice their thoughts on that experience from
>> the
>> inside.)
>>
>> Indeed there are times where the amazing articulation of a puppet
>> has moved
>> me to see and experience the life around me with a new and heightened
>> richness.
>>
>> For me the relationship between the story, performers, the object, the
>> setting and the audience, with what ever symbolic language we have
>> imbued
>> each of these with, is interesting and continues to be a place of
>> riches to
>> excavate for inspiration.  When these relationships are part of the
>> story,then dancers, puppeteers, members of the public, musicians can
>> all
>> bring unique and wonderful dynamics to the work, depending on the
>> intent and
>> execution of the work.
>>
>> (As a generalization I do also find it easier to bring dancers into
>> puppetry
>> than actors)
>>
>> On a side note, given that most of us (puppeteers) have often not
>> hired
>> musicians to play live but instead hired tape decks, overly depend on
>> prerecorded music and sometimes canned voices for the puppets, I
>> find it a
>> bit awkward to have puppeteers reacting on principal to not being
>> hired for
>> an opera and questioning the validity of a singer manipulating a
>> puppet.
>>
>> I love to see puppetry become more a part of the public civic and
>> theater
>> conversation and am encouraged when I see it happening.
>>
>> Geoffrey Navias
>> Open Hand Theater
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/3/09 12:55 PM, "Christopher Hudert" <heyhoot-AT-mindspring.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> I'd be curious to read some of Taymor and Curry's thoughts on not
>>>> using
>>>> puppeteers, if anyone knows where I might find them. I do remember
>>>> reading
>>>> that Taymor first trained in mime under Lecoq, and so perhaps
>>>> comes to
>>>> puppetry seeing it as a means to experiment with human movement and
>>>> body,
>>>> rather than focusing on the puppet itself.
>>>
>>> I've been trying to resist getting drawn into this thread, and I
>>> don't
>>> want to take sides, especially the "other" side BUT...
>>>
>>> Though I don't fully agree with the reluctance to hire puppeteers,
>>> I do
>>> understand it to a large degree.
>>>
>>> The thought does occur to me that part of this reluctance for Taymor
>>> and Curry may be more in the lack of diverse performing training that
>>> we puppeteers have (particularly in America). Too often we come to
>>> the
>>> table from the angle of the object/puppet with little training or
>>> experience in the many other disciplines of performance. How many
>>> of us
>>> have taken the time to study dance, movement, mime, magic, acting,
>>> voice, singing, etc., etc., etc. in order to be a better puppeteer?
>>> Many actors, on the other hand, continue taking classes to increase
>>> their craft. We puppeteers (and I am including myself in this) often
>>> trend towards the classes in the creation of the tool (puppet).
>>> Even if
>>> you review the archives of this list I believe you will see the
>>> bulk of
>>> the conversation is toward materials, methods of building, and
>>> performance review and few (if any) mentions of what great acting
>>> class
>>> or instructor someone has discovered.
>>>
>>> But even if Taymor, Curry, and others hire non-puppeteers and teach
>>> them to manipulate puppets, aren't they training them to be
>>> puppeteers?
>>> Aren't they then increasing our ranks, and infusing it with a new
>>> bloodline? A bit of bio-diversity is not a bad thing, me thinks.
>>> Perhaps some of the protests (though unspoken) are more that they
>>> didn't hire "us/me" and that "I" didn't get a shot at this juicy plum
>>> than it is the lack of hiring puppeteers. I understand the argument
>>> that perhaps if they hired a puppeteer the manipulation of the puppet
>>> would be better, but that is coming from students of the object/
>>> puppet.
>>> If you look at it from the school of performance/theater (where
>>> Taymore, Curry, and some others are probably coming from) it is more
>>> important that the acting/story be the stronger element. And I don't
>>> otherwise hear a chorus of complaint when new puppeteers join our
>>> ranks. Why is that?
>>>
>>> There is also the aspect of the difficulty of training out bad (or at
>>> least bad for what is desired) puppeteer habits in order to train in
>>> the desired ones. It's often easier to start with a clean slate
>>> than to
>>> try to wipe an old slate clean. Or at least in my experience.
>>>
>>> I find I would probably side with Taymore, Curry, and others 6 or 7
>>> out
>>> of 10 times. But then I come to puppetry from "the other side"
>>> (acting/story) so maybe that has something to do with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect I just hit the hornet's nest with a rock. I better run and
>>> jump in the lake. I'm sure people are going to tell me to do that (or
>>> worse) anyway.
>>>
>>> Christopher
>>>
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>>
>>
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