From: "Preston Foerder" <preston-AT-pfpuppetry.com>
To: <puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 16:39:40 -0400
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Nightingale in Toronto: Lepage and Curry


I think the problem here is the attitude that anyone can pick up a puppet
and be a puppeteer with little or no training.  Conrad expressed nicely the
difficulties that actors have in converting their art to puppetry.  No one
doubts that actors, singers, dancers, mimes, etc. all need to be trained in
their professions. But somehow it is assumed that because they are trained
in their own fields, any one of them can pick up a puppet and be a great
puppeteer without training in our field. Or they'll just pick up what they
need to know in rehearsals. Somehow because everyone has puppets when
they're kids, the assumption is we all have the prerequisites to be a
puppeteer. I have a degree in theater. Took acting, mime, dance, voice, and
even singing classes (though out of good will, I spare the world my singing
voice, and for that matter my dancing, unless I've had a few drinks). But to
be a puppeteer, it's also necessary to get extensive training in puppetry
whether in classes, workshops, or from other professionals.  Why should that
seem so odd? I'm also a big fan of crude puppetry, but like Picasso, who
said it took him his whole life to learn to paint like a child, it is
necessary to learn the skills before you can throw them away.

Preston

-----Original Message-----
From: puptcrit-bounces-AT-puptcrit.org [mailto:puptcrit-bounces-AT-puptcrit.org]
On Behalf Of Alissa
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 2:19 PM
To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Nightingale in Toronto: Lepage and Curry

The question was "I don't know what someone who is exclusively a  
singer can bring to a puppet other than a nice singing voice."

And I think my answer is -- a lot more than that.

On Oct 4, 2009, at 2:08 PM, Vladimir Vasyagin wrote:

>
> "Not that a non-singing puppeteer can't feel those things or touch an
> audience in that way, of course they can! But it's technically
> happening outside of the puppeteer".?????????????????????
> I am not a Musician. I am not a Dancer.
>
> I spend all my life to "touch an
> audience" on my own PUPPETEER's way.
> Vladimir
>
>
>
>> From: imissy-AT-mac.com
>> To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
>> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 12:04:15 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Nightingale in Toronto: Lepage and Curry
>>
>> I'm usually a lurker on this list, but this subject hits close to  
>> home.
>>
>> My background is in music (I have a master of music degree from
>> manhattan school of music). I am a singer who came to puppetry  
>> about 4
>> years ago. I love being a puppeteer and am very proud to be working  
>> in
>> this art form.
>>
>> It's undeniable that music and puppetry have a special connection,
>> with most puppet shows incorporating music in some way to help tell
>> the story. I think when a puppeteer can bring the music literally
>> through themselves and into the puppet that is a very beautiful and
>> powerful thing. It also happens to be what really makes me tick, so
>> I'm kind of passionate about that fusion.
>>
>> So to answer, what a singer can bring to a puppet -- I would say, a
>> musicality and fluidity and emotion that resonates in our body as our
>> instrument. With the goal, as any puppeteer has, of putting that
>> passion into the "brain of the puppet" as it were. We offer no  
>> barrier
>> between the music and the puppet, so when we take a breath...so does
>> the puppet. When we feel the crescendo in the music, so does the
>> puppet. When we feel the retardando from the pathos of the moment, so
>> does the puppet.
>>
>> Not that a non-singing puppeteer can't feel those things or touch an
>> audience in that way, of course they can! But it's technically
>> happening outside of the puppeteer.
>>
>> Alissa Hunnicutt
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2009, at 12:13 AM, Preston Foerder wrote:
>>
>>> When they don't exist in the same person (and sometimes when they
>>> do), I've
>>> always found that there is a power struggle between the puppet
>>> builder and
>>> puppet performer (who I would call the puppeteer but this will
>>> probably also
>>> get me in trouble).  Many times as a performer, I've been given
>>> puppets with
>>> blocks built into them to keep the puppet from doing motions the
>>> puppet
>>> builder doesn't think it should do.  As a performer, of course, the
>>> first
>>> thing you do is rip these things out so that you can have the
>>> freedom to
>>> manipulate the puppet as you would like. Curry, as the puppet
>>> builder, seems
>>> to believe that the way he has built the puppets makes it impossible
>>> for
>>> them to give a bad performance.  I hope he's right but I doubt it.
>>>
>>> As a director, if I'm training a non-puppeteer in puppetry, I would
>>> rather
>>> have someone with a movement background, i.e. mime, dance, etc.,  
>>> than
>>> someone with primarily an acting background as I have found that
>>> many actors
>>> have a hard time taking the character out of themselves and placing
>>> into an
>>> outside object. Generally what you get, as has been mentioned
>>> before, is
>>> someone doing a lot of acting with a puppet at the end of their arm
>>> doing
>>> nothing. I would rather have someone who is primarily a puppeteer
>>> which
>>> necessitates a knowledge of movement, voice, and acting skills. I
>>> don't know
>>> what someone who is exclusively a singer can bring to a puppet other
>>> than a
>>> nice singing voice.
>>>
>>> Preston
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: puptcrit-bounces-AT-puptcrit.org
[mailto:puptcrit-bounces-AT-puptcrit.org
>>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Christopher Hudert
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 12:55 PM
>>> To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Nightingale in Toronto: Lepage and Curry
>>>
>>>> I'd be curious to read some of Taymor and Curry's thoughts on not
>>>> using
>>>> puppeteers, if anyone knows where I might find them. I do remember
>>>> reading
>>>> that Taymor first trained in mime under Lecoq, and so perhaps comes
>>>> to
>>>> puppetry seeing it as a means to experiment with human movement and
>>>> body,
>>>> rather than focusing on the puppet itself.
>>>
>>> I've been trying to resist getting drawn into this thread, and I  
>>> don't
>>> want to take sides, especially the "other" side BUT...
>>>
>>> Though I don't fully agree with the reluctance to hire puppeteers, I
>>> do
>>> understand it to a large degree.
>>>
>>> The thought does occur to me that part of this reluctance for Taymor
>>> and Curry may be more in the lack of diverse performing training  
>>> that
>>> we puppeteers have (particularly in America). Too often we come to  
>>> the
>>> table from the angle of the object/puppet with little training or
>>> experience in the many other disciplines of performance. How many of
>>> us
>>> have taken the time to study dance, movement, mime, magic, acting,
>>> voice, singing, etc., etc., etc. in order to be a better puppeteer?
>>> Many actors, on the other hand, continue taking classes to increase
>>> their craft. We puppeteers (and I am including myself in this) often
>>> trend towards the classes in the creation of the tool (puppet). Even
>>> if
>>> you review the archives of this list I believe you will see the bulk
>>> of
>>> the conversation is toward materials, methods of building, and
>>> performance review and few (if any) mentions of what great acting
>>> class
>>> or instructor someone has discovered.
>>>
>>> But even if Taymor, Curry, and others hire non-puppeteers and teach
>>> them to manipulate puppets, aren't they training them to be
>>> puppeteers?
>>> Aren't they then increasing our ranks, and infusing it with a new
>>> bloodline? A bit of bio-diversity is not a bad thing, me thinks.
>>> Perhaps some of the protests (though unspoken) are more that they
>>> didn't hire "us/me" and that "I" didn't get a shot at this juicy  
>>> plum
>>> than it is the lack of hiring puppeteers. I understand the argument
>>> that perhaps if they hired a puppeteer the manipulation of the  
>>> puppet
>>> would be better, but that is coming from students of the object/
>>> puppet.
>>> If you look at it from the school of performance/theater (where
>>> Taymore, Curry, and some others are probably coming from) it is more
>>> important that the acting/story be the stronger element. And I don't
>>> otherwise hear a chorus of complaint when new puppeteers join our
>>> ranks. Why is that?
>>>
>>> There is also the aspect of the difficulty of training out bad (or  
>>> at
>>> least bad for what is desired) puppeteer habits in order to train in
>>> the desired ones. It's often easier to start with a clean slate than
>>> to
>>> try to wipe an old slate clean. Or at least in my experience.
>>>
>>> I find I would probably side with Taymore, Curry, and others 6 or 7
>>> out
>>> of 10 times. But then I come to puppetry from "the other side"
>>> (acting/story) so maybe that has something to do with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect I just hit the hornet's nest with a rock. I better run and
>>> jump in the lake. I'm sure people are going to tell me to do that  
>>> (or
>>> worse) anyway.
>>>
>>> Christopher
>>>
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>>
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