From: Widerman-AT-aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:53:19 EST
To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Is it art


I have not yet been to The Tim Burton exhibit at MOMA, but I did attend the 
 Pixar exhibit, which was simply astounding. Is it art? Such a feast for 
the eyes  could not be disqualified as art for any reason possible! You may 
choose to  label it commercial art, but still art. Clay sculptures, maquettes, 
sketches,  paintings, storyboards, all the work of teams of top talented 
artists in the  service of the Pixar movies on display for the public! I am 
sure I have pointed  this out before, but it is worth noting again. The best 
piece at the exhibit was  the "Toy Story" zoetrope, where 3 dimensional 
figures are made to appear to move  under a strobe light while rotating on a 
large platter. I must have watched it 5  times in a row. MOMA should be lauded 
for bringing us these exhibits.
 
Although the real thrill is to see it live, you can see a film of the  
zoetrope here:
 
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pDgwpVCz_Y&NR=1_ 
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pDgwpVCz_Y&NR=1) 
 
     -Steven->
 
 
In a message dated 12/7/2009 5:07:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
alangregorycook-AT-msn.com writes:

I think  it was considered a major shift in attitude when MOMA included a 
cartoon cel  from the Disney Studios in their collection. That could not be 
attributed to a  single artist, but then it was not all that different from 
earlier composite  works by Verrochio, or Rembrandt & his many students. 
Right now in Los  Angeles, The Getty Museum shows works by Rembrandt next to 
work by his  students---sometimes we don't know who did what, but it is still  
art.

For the puppet world, some old showmen never made their own  puppets, but 
bought them or had them made by craftsmen. But the performance  itself was 
the art of the showman.  But the puppet itself is also a work  of art (some 
better than others, of course).

Rolande touched on this,  and I agree, that even without provenance, a good 
puppet "speaks" or  communicates to/with the viewer.

And in my puppet collection there are  puppets made by more than one person.
One may do the portrait head, another  do the generic body, a third do the 
costume, a fourth figure out the stringing  or the control. If molds are 
involved, that can even be  outsourced.

Warner Brothers movies were not put together by one person,  but by hordes 
of actors, cameramen, lighting technicians, writers, directors,  set 
decorators, costumers, makeup specialists, but they always looked like a  Warner 
Brothers movie intead of one from MGM. They end up in film museums and  being 
shown in art museums.

The look of CORALINE is very different from  FANTASTIC MR FOX---both puppet 
group efforts. Many hands produced Sid &  Marty Krofft puppet shows (Tony 
Urbano, Jack Shafton), (even Lem Williams,  John Shirley & Frank Paris 
figures ended up in the first version of Les  Poupees de Paris since Sid Krofft 
recycled some puppets from his earlier solo  acts.).

The Krofft TV shows looked very different from POUPEES, but  shared a 
commonality of their own---often little people running around in  costumes 
flapping their arms and calling it  acting.



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert  Rogers
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2009 1:25 PM
To:  puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
Subject: [Puptcrit] Is it art?

Better yet,  should it be in a major art museum?  I mean, I viewed the Tim  
Burton/Museum of Modern Art website and looked at videos in which various  
artisans described how they fabricated 3D versions of Tim Burton's sketches  
for the exhibit.  Is that then his artwork?  Theirs?  A  collaboration?

There was a play a few years ago by Jon Robin Baitz  about an aging artist 
(played by Donald Sutherland) who has been telling his  assistant what to 
paint aqnd where, rather than doing it himself.  The  issue was about who 
deserved the credit.

I don't have the answer.   Plenty of artists work with assistants, and many 
who design statues or giant  works for outdoor settings, for example, have 
them reproduced by  artisans.  Calder did.  Leonardo Da Vinci, when he was 
an  apprentice, is credited with finishing his master Verrochio's work.

But  there's something about this Tim Burton exhibit that rubs me the wrong 
 way.

Robert  Rogers
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