From: Vladimir Vasyagin <vasyagin-AT-hotmail.com>
To: <puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 00:23:38 -0500
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Is "Avatar" a puppet show?



BRAVO, Rolande!!!!!

Vladimir



> To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:10:32 -0500
> From: puppetpro-AT-aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Is "Avatar" a puppet show?
> 
> 
> Five year-olds will tell you what a puppet is and is not.  
> If they see Gollum in a film, they may say that that is "real" and not a puppet. If they see someone dressed up in the DID gear, they will not see a puppet.
> If a very urbane five year-old sees lots of cutting edge puppetry, he/she may use salt and pepper shakers like puppets, but tell you that they are only salt and pepper shakers. Or he/she may tell you that they are the king and queen of the table, and certainly not puppets. 
> If a five year-old Hopi Indian sees a kachina doll as a kachina doll, not a puppet. If he/she did see a puppet, it may be called a "kachina". 
> If a fifty year-old puppeteer sees a puppet in everything, that's okay. Just don't tell the five year-old.
> 
> 
> Rolande
>  
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hobey Ford <hobeyone-AT-gmail.com>
> To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
> Sent: Mon, Jan 11, 2010 5:55 pm
> Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] Is "Avatar" a puppet show?
> 
> 
> <Also, we need to be accurate about all this stuff in order to understand
> > it--the "Avatar" performers were _not_ wearing "digital costumes" at
> > all--they were wearing quite real costumes that allowed their movements to
> > be transformed into the movement of digital imagery...
> 
>    JB >
> 
> >
> > On 1/10/10 8:48 AM, "Susan Wall Kronenberg" <susan-AT-carouselpuppets.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > There is no puppetry in Avatar.  The actors were wearing digital
> > > costumes.  Does that make them puppeteers?  No.>
> >
> 
> When Susan says they are wearing digital costumes,  She is referring to the
> final effect, and I have to agree that the mocap suits are a tool in
> creating digital costumes AND make-up.  It isn't unfair to come to that
> conclusion.  A  bunch of costumers could be having the same debate: is the
> digital image virtual costuming and the argument would have its merits.  It
> was  said in the discussion that the performer in imagining the final image
> result, acts in such a way as to be puppeteering that image.  I would
> suggest that a young man playing scrooge with make-up is doing essntially
> the same thing, so are they puppeteering the scrooge make-up.  But then the
> digital mocap performance is occurring in another local seperate from the
> performing which has the attributes of puppeteering.  I envisioned once a
> mechanical version of motion capture and had it figured out but the tests
> weren't working so I abandonned the idea.  I tried it  a couple of times
> after that, but I totally thought of it as puppetry.  My body harness puppet
> for the main character of Baba Yaga was essentially physial motion capture
> in the most basic. It was incedently a magical feeling performing that
> puppet.  I would use a 12" shoplifting mirror as my monitor to assess and
> puppeteer the figure.  It felt in someways like physically acting the
> character but the puppeteering factor was ingaged in transferring the
> movement to the figure and reducing the scale of movement. But it had the
> feeling of physically acting/miming through the puppet.  So the diference on
> one level for an Avatar actor/puppeteer is that they can't if I have it
> right see the effect of their puppeteering in that I think is a point off in
> calling it puppetry.  Although I suppose if you aren't in a henson
> production a puppeteer finds themselves unable to see their final result as
> its happening.  hmmmm.  I like the Indonesian reference made earlier that
> they make no disctinction between any of the arts and that they all flow
> together.
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