Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:59:28 -0500 From: Hobey Ford <hobeyone-AT-gmail.com> To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] La Traviata gypsy chorus animation Whoops, I think I was on the board of UNIMA when stop animation was considered at category for citations. I don't think we spent too much arguement on it as I remember it being an agreeable group. On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Hobey Ford <hobeyone-AT-gmail.com> wrote: > I would argue that puppetry on film is still puppetry. If it was a filming > of puppeteers who at the time were manipulating the puppets in real time, it > is then puppetry. It can be enhanced through film techniques and is > essentially part of the art of film, but the performance which is filmed is > essentially puppetry. My arguement about real time performance has to do > with whether the manipulation was achieved in real time. I have no > arguement with filmed puppetry, but instead the notion that stop animation > can be called puppetry. They might use a puppet to create the stop > animation, like in Mr Fox (which I get to see at the $3 pizza theater with > beer made on the premises) but if they are using stop animation, they are > not doing puppetry in my mind, they are doing stop animation. I have a clip > from Turtle Island Tales which I remade for video. > http://www.hobeyford.com/video/turtle-island-tales > The piece was produced by filming the shadow puppet on a shadow screen. > Then the shadow puppet was keyed out isolating the shadow image. Then I > used motion graphics to create movement and distance of the shadow in the > frame. The background was also motion graphics. Is it puppetry? I would > say it is a combination of puppetry and animation. It can't be called > simply puppetry or shadow puppetry. I see a distinction. much of the > illusion of the piece was created on my computer through motion graphics. I > essentially animated aspects of it and puppeteered other aspects. I was > responding to my own performance in real time as I filmed it, so it is both > animation and puppetry, but not purely "a puppet show". Any successful > puppet film has taken into account the art of filmmaking. Simply setting up > a camera and walking away doesn't cut it. "Dark Crystal" is not a puppet > show, it is a film made with puppetry. > > One of the reasons I find these distinctions interesting and troubling at > times is UNIMA's category of stop animation as puppetry. I think giving > "Nightmare before Christmas" a puppetry citation is misleading, however you > feel about the movie. Compare it with Dark Crystal which was filmed > puppetry. They are two different things. Who decided animation was > puppetry on the UNIMA board? I think our musings are educated but if we > sent down edicts of our opinions would that be correct? I don't resent the > fact that UNIMA considers animation puppetry, I just feel like it is a valid > thought to reconsider. I find it fascinating in fact... What is puppetry? > In the end I realize that definitons are subjective and meaningless at a > certain level, but we do use them in talking about our artform which makes > them important to us. > You can probably tell also that I am not working today which gives me time > to contemplate such minutia. > > > On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Steve Abrams <sapuppets-AT-gmail.com>wrote: > >> M, thanks for posting the clip. It made me hungry >> >> My friend Hobey is eloquent and his magician analogy is strong one. >> Hobey uses the phrase "breaking away from real time." >> >> All film (except for unedited documentary footage) breaks away from real >> time. >> The great performances of the cinema are nothing like great performances >> in >> a theatre. >> I don't think anyone would suggest that film acting is not acting. >> >> Most of the music that we listen to is produced in a studio where it is >> clipped and snipped and augmented in all sorts of magical ways. There is a >> whole realm of digitally produced music. >> I don't think anyone would suggest that studio musicians are somehow not >> really musicians. >> >> I truly deeply love live performance- there is nothing in the world quite >> like it, but I am not convinced that live performance defines the borders >> of >> puppetry anymore than it does for actors or musicians >> >> Rolande wrote that "we play with their perception, their attitudes, their >> attention and focus." >> This is certainly true in live performance, but doesnt all art do those >> things? >> Steve >> >> On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Hobey Ford <hobeyone-AT-gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Thanks Malgosia, That was wonderful! >> > I have to comment on puppetry vs animation >> > >> > It seems to me that one of the differences of animation and puppetry >> is >> > the animation's lack of restraints to have a character do or be >> anything. >> > It is almost magic in comparison to a puppetry. For instance morphing >> into >> > a flower as the characters do in this piece. It seems to me one of the >> > tenants or attributes of puppetry is that the figure is transformed into >> a >> > living being through the suggestive manipulation of the puppeteer. >> There >> > is >> > a physical limit between the possibility of "life" and the puppets >> > inanimate >> > nature. It is the puppeteers manipulation in real time that becomes the >> > bridge between "inanimate" and ":the illusion of life". I would suggest >> > that animations advantage of being able to stop time and to modify the >> > figure is the actual difference between puppeteering and animating. Its >> > what makes a puppeteers skill so unique. It is I suggest the unique >> > difference. The animator is also brilliant in their own way. But they >> > have >> > in their tool chest something we don't have which is breaking from real >> > time. Animation and puppetry have different definitions, different >> > training, different communities and they are closely related but unique. >> > >> > If somehow I have a magic wand and can bring a pair of scissors to life >> to >> > dance a ballet on the table. Is that puppetry? I would say that there >> is >> > a >> > point at which an animatronic or animation employ special effects that >> > "fudge" on the definition, for the figure is no longer brought to life >> > through the cycle of: "puppeteer-object- manipulation-observation- >> imagined >> > life" another "magic" element is added. It like training wheels on a >> > bicycle, an added dimension that eliminates the necessity to know how to >> > ride a bike. Flying around a room is different than flying around a >> room >> > on >> > a cable. It seems to me that when the object's manipulation is enhanced >> by >> > means outside the puppeteers control in real time that it becomes >> > animation. Animation is not a bad word it is just different to me than >> > puppetry, related but different. The puppeteers unique abilty is a >> skill >> > at >> > being the bridge between animate and inanimate in real time in creating >> the >> > illusion of life. The animator has to imagine their figures life and >> > render >> > it, but the animator break apart time to pull off the illusion. Another >> > perplexing analogy would be the magician. Is it truly "magic" if the >> > magician stops the camera and removes the girl from inside the box, >> then >> > restarts the camera. No it is a portrayal of magic but the skill of the >> > magician is their illusion in real time, I would say. Does that >> argument >> > make sense or hold water? >> > >> > On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:11 PM, malgosia askanas <ma-AT-panix.com> wrote: >> > >> > > Don't know who did this(there are no credits), but it's quite funny: >> > > >> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldD2eKSZMWg >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > List address: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org >> > > Admin interface: http://lists.puptcrit.org/mailman/listinfo/puptcrit >> > > Archives: http://www.driftline.org >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > List address: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org >> > Admin interface: http://lists.puptcrit.org/mailman/listinfo/puptcrit >> > Archives: http://www.driftline.org >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> List address: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org >> Admin interface: http://lists.puptcrit.org/mailman/listinfo/puptcrit >> Archives: http://www.driftline.org >> > > _______________________________________________ List address: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org Admin interface: http://lists.puptcrit.org/mailman/listinfo/puptcrit Archives: http://www.driftline.org
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