Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 08:33:18 -0500
From: Hobey Ford <hobeyone-AT-gmail.com>
To: puptcrit-AT-puptcrit.org
Subject: Re: [Puptcrit] "Avatar" is a puppet show?


It seems to me that if stop animation is puppetry then why not cell
animation.  A shadow puppet is also 2 dimensional.  You make very good
points about the implications of the definition.  The definition can
matter in instances like film or big budget theater productions.   I
think one could also say that a puppeteer can be utilized in many
things that aren't necessarily the art of puppetry. A biologist, might
hire a puppeteer to feed baby whooping cranes.  A car may be driven as
Vladamir pointed out with the intention of creating character.  God
could be a puppeteer.  Anything can be pulled into the definition with
a little rationalization. An animated christmas card is made with the
intention not unsimilar to an animated performance.  In a practical
economical sense, I can see Steven's point as an important
consideration,  but I feel that spreading out of the definition so
broadly is silly.  I don't see animators and toaster manipulators or
truck drivers on film or greeting card designers as involved in
creating puppet art.  I decided to leave art school after I attended
an exhibition in which the art work was a red string running through
the gallery.  To me, calling it "art" was a huge stretch.  Its ok if
anyone wants to call what ever they do puppetry and I am only posing
thoughts to consider.  I am proud of the craft, the study, the depth,
the history and richness of our field and will never consider a
cleverly manipulated toaster the ART of puppetry.   I'd be ok calling
it puppetry, as a child or novice can be seen as doing puppetry with
out any training.  Professional (industry) puppeteer by title in this
widened view suggests that an actor can easily fill the bill, they
understand character, they can be directed to manipulate a toaster. So
it allows that all kinds of artists who have never even realized it
are now puppeteers.  I don't consider that empowering to our field,
but I am enjoying and appreciate everyone's opinion in this
conversation.


On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:58 PM,  <widerman-AT-aol.com> wrote:
> I would like to address Mark's question " . . . what does it =A0matter?"
> because I believe it matters a lot. (See Mark's comments =A0quoted below).
>
> Defining the boundaries may be crucial to our jobs and our recognition =A0of
> puppeteers. A battle fought some years ago by puppeteers in the Screen
> Actor's Guild succeeded in a dispute with IATSE, the stagehands union, regarding
> =A0manipulating objects in film. It was determined, as an example, that a
> toaster that must fly through the air and hit a wall is a special effect that
> can be handled by a stagehand. A toaster that must emote before it hits the
> wall =A0is a puppeteer's job. Sometimes the distinction is not so clear, but
> a =A0puppeteer's lucrative film contract may be determined by it.
>
> For awarding UNIMA Citations of Excellence in the Art of Puppetry (UNI's),
> UNIMA-USA determined, after much internal debate, that stop action
> animation =A0qualified as puppetry and therefore met the criteria of eligibility for
> the =A0award. The logic was that stop action figures are objects moved by human
> =A0effort, though not in real time, but are essentially being puppeteered.
> Tim =A0Burton's "Nightmare Before Christmas," was awarded a Citation.
> Conversely, =A0hand-drawn cel animation was not accepted as falling within the
> definition =A0of puppetry.
>
> At the Puppeteer's of America Festival in Atlanta last July,
> Muppets-trained puppeteer John Tartaglia regaled an audience of puppeteers with =A0his
> experience "puppeteering his face" for the Magic Mirror character in the
> Broadway musical "Shrek," utilizing performance capture technology. Had the
> character been performed by an actor who was not trained as a puppeteer, I
> wonder if we would have defined it as a puppet performance so readily. The
> boundary lines are more blurred than ever in the realm of performance =A0capture.
> Is a captured body movement performance puppetry? Perhaps the answer =A0is
> sometimes.
>
> Are the toys in "Toy Story" being puppeteered by the animators? Those guys
> at Pixar call their characters puppets and they design "controls" to
> manipulate =A0the movements. Should they be eligible for the UNIMA Citation? Are the
> =A0animatronic figures in the Disney theme parks puppets moved by puppeteers
> whose =A0performance has been recorded and played back repeatedly or are they
> mere =A0automatons? Is Miss Piggy seen on a screen a puppet or merely the
> 2-dimensional =A0projected image of a puppet? What if the projection is in
> recently =A0reconstituted 3-D? We have a lot to think about. To answer the question
> is the =A03-D movie "Avatar" a puppet show, I would say that there are many
> elements of =A0puppetry very successfully employed in the movie.
>
> I encourage the debate, as lines will be drawn, and how we define ourselves
> =A0is vital to our livelihoods.
>
> =A0 =A0 -Steven->
>
> In a message dated 1/6/2010 6:25:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> segalpuppets-AT-comcast.net writes:
>
> Always =A0thought (at least since the time of Yoda) that the definition of a
> puppet =A0was a "hand" had to be in direct control in some way.
> Am curious as to, =A0what does it matter?
> Thought the movie (in 3d) was visually =A0stunning.
> Also thought it somewhat too long and the story was basic cowboys =A0and
> Indians.
> Bad guys vs good guys.
> Enjoyed it....but would not say =A0one of the best - except visually - that
> was
> exquisite.
>
> MS
>
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