Date: 05 Apr 1999 03:08:00 +0200
From: I-AFD_2-AT-anarch.free.de (Nico MYOWNA)
Subject: Re: A few stats on the Balkans.


Hi Bart, hi, Roger and all!

Bart wrote:

> Nico sends us this bullshit.  Lord knows why...

If we are really independent of the state propaganda of *every* side, than  
we have to discuss all kinds of information, which are offered.
>
> >FROM A COLUMN BY TONY SNOW: Key members of the United States Senate sat
> >slack-jawed through a confidential briefing last Thursday from the Clinton
> >administration foreign-policy team.
>
> Anything that starts out like this is self-identified as the product of the
> imagination of the writer.  The man was not there, so he clearly had to
> make this shit up out of his own fertile imagination.

Come on, Bart, you are either wasn't there and you are *not* an inhabitant  
of the Kosovo. I try to explaine what I mean in your words:

"And now I ask the auditorium on this list:

Who is a direct wittness of the genocide in Kosovo?

No hands go up. -- And now I ask:

Who is a indirekt wittness mediated by the mass media and see this geno- 
cide only in front of his own fertile imagination?

After a while all hands going up...."

Most of them, what we know about this war, is out of second or third  
hands. Every media could manipulate our sought -- for example if you show  
a fire at the TV from diffrent places or give a comment, that this was the  
xy-building, but in fact it is the xyz-building next door -- and incite  
us. Likewise many of the refugees telling could be out of their fertile  
imagination produze by fear and panic or out of third hands because the  
former neighbor's next door have told this....

We cann't exclude that mechanism of communication like the play of childs  
where one child whisper some information ("Car is brocken") an other child  
in it open ear, this child whisper this to an third child and so on, but  
at the end it is an other information ("Bar is open"), take part in this  
refugees stories or media informations. If the person who mailed this in-  
formation wasn't there than it is possible that Tony Snow was there; and  
if Tony Snow wasn't there than one other person, who possible have been  
there, must told Tony Snow something about this meeting....
>
> >This is indead *a big diffrent* between Hitler and Milosevic.: It's seem
> >that it is an expulsion, not a genocide in Kosovo...
>
> But this goes beyond mere bullshit and enters the arena of pure propaganda.
> The reports of serb thugs murdering the muslims in Kosovo is beyond
> dispute, coming from sources all over the political spectrum.

Yes, that's right. But if we say, that Hitler's Holocaust with an industri- 
al utilization and murdering of more than 6 Million people is similar to  
Milosevic's actions in Kosovo, than we need clear facts and proofs for  
that claim *now* and not in Bosnia years before.

We have to ask ourself: What is the reason of NATO for this war of aggres-  
sion, who thwart all european hopes of KSE-contracts with Russia and the  
military stability of nuclear weapons in Europe? -- Right, at the front- 
page the possible genocide and humanitarian situation in Kosovo. It is  
possible that the governments inside of the NATO have constructed this ge-  
nocide together with their law-addicted media out of some single bloody  
progroms against muslimes in Kosovo to create a reason for their war? --  
If over there have been a genocide before than the NATO have to calculate  
with many refugees -- but the last declarations of NATO show that nobody  
have calculated with refugees on the whole.

Listen, I'm not going to say that there are not bloody cases of murdering  
in Kosovo. But -- what we call a genocide? Just 1 400 deceases by murder- 
ing out of 300 000 people? So we have a german or american genocide every  
year on our streets in every single city of our countries. Or speak we  
about a genocide if somebody wiping out a population or a strong part of  
it by military and civil forces? Must we give into the bargain that there  
is a expulsion going on in Kosovo -- in my personaly oppinion likewise a  
war crime -- and even not a genocide at this moment?!

The serbian army and the paramilitary groups taking people from their ho- 
mes but doesn't executing them summarily on the spot and wiping out a po-  
pulation on the basis of their religion. The executing is at this moment  
exception, not the rule. It have been the fail of the NATO not to organize  
ad the start of the war enough material to handle with tens of thousends  
refugees. Milosevic need living refugees to have hostages against the KLA  
and to destabilize the other countries who have a border with Serbia. The  
serbian army have the order to organize buses to send the refugees out to  
Albania to destabilize this country.

Think about it. Is this really only "the arena of pure propaganda" in your  
eyes?

> To claim
> that this is
> not genocide is to label yourself a serb supporter, and a supporter of
> genocide.

Sorry, Bart, but I have only wrote: "It's seem that..." This mean, if I  
reflect the information on this document only, than....
>
> And to pass this on to the list without any disclaimer is to do the same
> thing.

It seems that you are label yourself as a NATO supporter and a supporter  
of state propaganda. The number of deceases by genocide until 1.04.99 is  
nearly 1400 out of a expulsivated population of 550 000, documented by  
american journalists and KLA-fighters, if we ad all single cases.

To wrote a disclaimer can from there only mean, that I should show myself  
as manipulated by state mass medias and standing on *one* side against the  
declared enemy of states in this war of aggression. I should show a beha- 
viour similar to the "Hurra-patriotism" at the begining of this century --  
and ad myself to this self-declaired fighters for humanity and neo-coloni-  
alism -- "Serbien mu=DF sterbien!!".
>
> I'm not accusing you of being a supporter of genocide, you are doing it
> yourself with this curious behavior.

Yes, it is allways curious if anarchist cranks try to find out the true  
and doesn't beliefe the state propaganda....(ironic meaning)

> I can't for the life of me understand
> why?  It is not that Miloseved does not have a record of the same thing in
> Bosnia...

Yes, Milosevic is responsible for the bloody fights in Bosnia. His serbian  
media have incited the Serbs ower there to kill muslims and croates and he  
have supported the murders of 40 000 muslims in Bosnia.
>
> I know that you have a real jones for the US and NATO, but the murdering
> swine Milosevec has a track record here, and is doing the same thing he did
> in Bosnia.   Genocide.

The number of deceases by genocide show at this moment an diffrent pic- 
ture. 1 400 victims are in any relation to the genocide in Ruanda for ex-  
ample with ower 500 000 deceases. It seems to be a strategy of Milosevic  
to use refugees *as a weapon* angainst the NATO and their interests not to  
destabilize the hole region.

Nico

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