Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:10:57 -0400
From: Aaron Micheau <amaarchy-AT-compuserve.com>
Subject: POSSIBLY Incomplete Message: Re: i love butchers


Message text written by danceswithcarp

>So, make it impossible for the tanks and apcs to cross rivers or
>be refueled and all of a sudden the playing field for the +interior+
>anti-milosevic forces.  <

...which still doesn't explain why they should turn against Milosevic when
they've done exactly the opposite thus far and NATO is the one dropping
bombs around their ears.  No amount of bombs is going to create an
impassable border between Serbia and Kosovo.  i'll just assume you don't
have an explanation for this magical 'reversal' theory of yours.

>Then we see whether your line is a crock of shit,
>or whther the serb people can set up alternatives to Milosevic.  If they
>go nationalist, then I'd have to say their committement to revolution
>wasn't too deep to begin with, wouldn't you? 

Well, yes, except that noone suggested that Serbs generally had a
"commitment to revolution", whatever that's supposed to mean. Only that
many were opposed to Milosevic, and many were not nationalists.  Are you
reading this, roger? Try to understand, dear.

>Are you saying "Give Milosevic a chance to change his mind?"   How long,
>then do we wait?  100,000 dispossessed refugees?  200,000?  300,000?  A
>MILLION?  The problem is you have no alternative to war.  None.  Zip.
>Nada.

If you weren't actually typing this, i'd be convinced you were illiterate,
it reveals no evidence that you read my posts. i'll just chalk this one up
to selective memory, then, OK? 

i wrote:

>> Kosovo will be littered
>> with DU shells, and who knows what that shit does to you (except for
>> thousands of Gulf War vets and Iraqi Shiites, who might have interesting
> >theories...).  

>You simply don't have a clue as to what depleted uranium is and how it
>behaves, do you?  No one, no where, has shown that DU becomes hot to any
>appreciable levels after impact.  It is not plutonium.  What has been
>shown is there is a detectable burst of micro-radiation on a solid impact
>that lasts for a microsecond.  This is a "detectable" burst, not a lethal
>one.  You simply repeat half-assed leftist propoganda here.  You ought to
>look it up.

you know, actually i did look it up.

 this has to be one of your personal bests in distortion and sheer
intellectual dishonesty.  The "leftist" Presidential Advisory Committee on
GWS in 12/96 stated "No studies of longterm human health effects of uranium
metal implanted in tissue exist..."  Which is a paraphrase of what i said
above.  The PAC continued,  "Nevertheless, toxic effects are likely to be
similar to the kidney toxicity observed from inhaled or ingested uranium." 

The problem, honey, is that ON IMPACT, DU  becomes hot enough to burn,
turning into smoke and dust, which then makes it inhalable and ingestible. 

But thanks for the extra facts  (i hadn't known that uranium was not
plutonium). 

So, like, is the Department of Defense the source of all of your
information? That would explain a few things...

i wrote:

>>NATO will find
>>itself either suppressing the KLA, a la US troops in Somalia, or tacitly
>>supporting the KLA, a la British colonials in Palestine.  In either case,
>> the likely outcome is a ignomious (but indignantly victorious) NATO
>> withdrawal, 

>Maybe you don't read your own stooges' propoganda.  What has been posted
>here is that NATO will be there forever.

What's been posted where, Carp?  Try to be specific this time and respond
to MY emails instead of your Leftist Straw Men.   i sincerely doubt that
NATO wants a permanent protectorate in Kosovo - what i did argue is that
NATO is looking for a new source of legitimacy.  Once it's shown how tough
it can be - that it can 'punish' Nasty Bad Guys as long as it gets to
choose who the Nasty Bad Guys are, there's no point in it continuing to
occupy Kosovo.  

> Or are you saying there is no possiblity at all for the
>introduction of anarchy and creating communities that help themselves?
>This is the shit-test for anarchists, aaron; either shit, or get off the
>pot.   Not once do you presume that the PEOPLE might do better without the
>Serbian state to provide for them

this is just silly.  i don't see this war as a particularly good
opportunity for building anarchism.  i might just as well pose the question
to you:  The Albanian refugees are free from oppression of the Yugoslav
state in their cross-border camps and mountain hideaways.  This is a
perfect opportunity for them to build anarchist communities.  So what are
you whining about?
 And why is it that later on in your post you ask me who but NATO is going
to protect all of the Albanians, but here you claim that people should
protect themselves?  Isn't this one of those times you make one of those
colorful statements about someone's logic being so convoluted that their
nose is stuck up their anus, or some such? What exactly DO you stand for? 

>Would you negotiate with a rapist?  Maybe where you come from people
>negotiate with psychopaths and sociopaths, but this guy has the blood of
>100,000s of thousands on his hands.  And you want to NEGOTIATE with him?  
>For what?

Great soundbite stuff.  Running for office anytime soon?  Holding any
stocks in the prison industry? 
i would negotiate with a rapist, if i thought a resolution might prevent
him, or induce him, to stop commiting rapes.   Particulary if my ability to
force him to stop committing rapes was ineffective, and as a result of my
attempts to use force, he stepped up his commission of rapes.   One thing
is clear, negotiation is virtually impossible while bombs are dropping, and
NATO has refused all calls for a cease-fire in order to try.  i guess
they're just too busy saving Albanians.  

>Who do you presume is going to protect all of these
>happily returning albanians, anyway?  Or do you assume they won't need it.
>And if they do, then won't that take foreign troops?  and isn't that what
>the R...A