From: "Chris Deschamp" <daspimp-AT-hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: anarchist community
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 01:17:31 CST


Ok, first of all, i believe we need 2 check our facts here.  The tax Thoreau 
refused 2 pay was a poll tax supporting slavery.  He refused 2 pay it so was 
thrown in2 jail.  He got pissed off at the govt 4 putting him there so he 
wrote "Civil Disobedience", where he sounded off abt govt in general, but 
mainly abt the us govt.  But Thoreau had rich relatives, who got him out of 
jail the next day.  So if he enjoyed being put in prison, y the hell did he 
want 2 get out, and y the hell did he complain abt it in CD?  Basically, 
Thoreau wrote CD b/c he was pissed off at the govt 4 what it was doing.  Its 
a great essay, but whether or not thoreau believed half the stuff he said is 
disputable.  I mean, even when he was out in the woods in his cabin, he 
didnt spend ALL his time in the woods.  He came home many times in his 
supposed 3-yr stay (I think that was how long he "stayed" out there) He used 
MONEY 2 BUY supplies 2 build the cabin with, making him a hypocrite in that 
respect 2 begin with.


>From: K Kinkel <kakinkel-AT-hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: K Kinkel <kakinkel-AT-hotmail.com>
>To: dcombs-AT-bloomington.in.us, anarchy-list-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
>Subject: Re: anarchist community
>Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 01:16:44 PST
>
>Carp illuminated us:
>
>>Gandhi was a liberal.   He needed the state, so he used the state.  
>> >Voters
>>in the U$ do the same thing, and nobody ever called them >revolutionaries.
>
>>Thoreau was a liberal, not a transcendentalist.
>
>Gandhi was a liberal, sure.  Thoreau was a liberal, I'll accept it for the
>sake of argument.  One thing we can be absolutely sure of, however, is that
>Carp and I are liberal.  After all, we often use the state to achieve our
>own ends.
>
>>He refused to pay the state, but he recognized the authority of the >state
>>to imprison him, especially since the state held him
>>in some cushy cell away from the rabble, sort of like how white >collar
>>criminals serve their time now in the e$tado$ unito$.
>
>I have no idea if Carp recognizes the state or not, but I'm sure the old
>paychecks were as real as mine.
>
>Some other guy wrote:
>> >  The man was a genious.  He refused to pay the dollar for his
>> > diploma at Harvard, so he never got it.
>
>Actually the story about his refusal of his diploma is rather questionable
>in its accuracy.
>
>And again the other guy:
>> >  During the Mexican war, the government demanded he pay his      >
>> >taxes.  He didn't
>> > want his money going to kill another nation, so he went to jail.  > 
>> >One
>>of the most famous acts of cival disobedience of all time.
>
>Gee, I hope not.
>
>Carp wrote:
>>I kind of thought it was silly.   If he didn't want his money to go >kill
>>another nation, he should have killed the nation that was >taking his 
>>money
>>to kill the other nations.   The effect would have >been much more
>>noticable.
>
>And done very little to improve anything.  Believe it or not, shooting
>everything that moves is not always the most effective way to end a war.
>
>>But then again he was a liberal, so he just wanted to influence state
>>policy, not destroy it.
>
>I would love if you could give me a reference for that.
>
>                                                Kevin K.
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