Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 11:44:31 -0500
From: danceswithcarp <dcombs-AT-bloomington.in.us>
Subject: 


At 11:00 PM 9/2/00 -0700, you wrote:

 >Okay. Well, spray for the damn mosquitos then.

Requires a massive pesticide industry.  Malathon or whatever that crap is 
they spray in California at night and all over the East Coast this summer 
is a very complex product, not to mention it is fairly non-discriminatory 
in nature.
 >>
 >> Not to mention apple trees require huge amounts of anti-mold and 
anti->>pest
 >> materials and strawberries in their natural form are less than 1cm in
 >> diameter.   and require huge amounts to make a meal.  And further not >>to

 >You got me on the strawberries. But what about permaculture?


6 billion people?  Permaculture?   It's your call.

 >Johnny Appleseed didn't coat his apples with anti-pest materials, etc..

 >So what if a few apples get eaten by pests?


It's really a rust mold that does the damage, and then also there's wasps 
that attack the blemishes.  But the bigger porblem is simply that Johnny 
Appleseed (Like Charlie Manson, Jim Jones and John Dillinger, another Great 
Hoosier) may have planted appleseeds, but appletrees that aren't pruned and 
nurtured and sprayed and watered turn out these little hard green fruits 
that give you the shits except for a couple of weeks a year.

 >> mention strawberries and apples are seasonal-specific  and you'll have >>to
 >> figure out some way to preserve them, which I know and you don't.

 >Well, I have a brain, teach me. That's what mutual aid is all about, right?
 >Most Americans, like me, are pretty fucking clueless. So, I'm all ears.

I can teach you, but I can't teach the wirld because the wirld is based on 
a hydro-carbon agriculture.   With the exception of the SE Asian rice 
industries, most of the wirld is fed by gasoline or diesel fuel.   The 
commonly accepted formula for the US is that each calorie of food requires 
an investement of ten calories of oil-product.  I have never, ever, seen 
any realistic approach to converting to any other base for agriculture that 
doesn't require a massive die-off of people.

But even wirse is that cows and chickens can't live on their own.  Pigs can 
but they become feral and dangerous in about 2 generations ("Arkansas 
Razorbacks")  Even the idea of tearing down the fences and letting the 
bison repopulate the Great Plains is a zero:  first it will take our wheat 
regions, then there is the debate about whether the herds would have even 
survived the onslaught of the First American "Buffalo culture" of the late 
18th and the 19th centuries.   Food is going to be a real bitch in this 
idylllic wirld.

 >> are just the fallacies of things listed in your post.  We haven't even
 >> gotten into the reality of sub-zero temperatures and the other things that
 >> make up environmental systems in the northern latitudes.
 >>
 >> Personally I think you need a bowel movement:  You are full of shit.

 >I never claimed I wasn't.

Honesty scores well.


carp