File spoon-archives/anarchy-list.archive/anarchy-list_2000/anarchy-list.0012, message 94


From: "Old Goat" <olgoat-AT-kdsi.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Forced Electroshock of 25 yr old planned in NY
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:15:54 -0000


----- Original Message -----
From: Unka Bart <gatorojo-AT-earthlink.net>

[large snippages]

> Let me state in advance that this is one area that my friend, and the
voice of wisdom on this list (he's older than I, and infinitely wiser - and
vice versa) Goat, do not agree.

> It is an unfortunate fact that some people get broken by forces beyond
their control, and thus, of no fault of their own.  Still, everyone has free
will, and everyone is ultimately responsible for their actions and the
consequences of those actions.
>
> And let us not forget that death is one of those univerally shared
experiences, it come to each of us, without exception.  So, my personal view
is that someone who exercises his/her free will to kill, rape or main should
be summarily executed.  My view is that one's right to life ends when you
take another's, but in any event, executing the violent transgressor merely
brings the inevitable earlier than (perhaps) it would otherwise have come.
And I feel the same about violent rape, and maiming.

> NOT out of revenge, but to ensure, for the sake of those members of
society not yet killed, maimed or raped by the transgressor, that there is
no danger of recidivision by that particular broken individual.  As I said,
it may not be fair because that individual was broken by things beyond that
individual's control; but life is not fair, and does not come with any
guarantees.
>
> Thus, in my entirely personal view, the option of treatment is quite a
generous one.
>
> Yer kindly Ol' Unka Bart
>
Bartus, y silver - tongued devil, y.  you can downright turn a fella's head
with them smooth words and that winsome smile.  ah youth.  nonetheless, y
have spoke true.  during these exchanges i often find it necessary to remind
meself that acceptance dont indicate approval any more 'n disagreement
indicates rejection.

often in this real life magilla wherein we find ourselfs we gotta aks the
musical question "what's the most humane form o self - defence?"  my basic
quarrel is (and always has been) with the social unit taking unto itself
powers/rights that it will not allow its individual members to possess.
whilst i abhorr state - sanctioned murder committed in my name, i can
certainly understand violent - force self defence.

historically, the Goat Clan's penultimate device for this purpose has been
external banishment -- exile.  o course, the ultimate device was homicide --
to be performed only upon the exile's unwarrented return to the social unit
(Clan).  the first adult Goater to encounter the interloper was obligated to
terminate with extreme prejudice forwith.  very much the deterrent there.

i have heard it reasonably argued that banishment merely caused the Clan's
problem to become someone else's problem.  perhaps, perhaps not.  should the
miscreant mend his ways somewheres down the turnpike, well, so much the
better.  should he become a burden there then the locals were free to deal
with him as they saw fit.  was this fair to the neighbours?  probably not,
but warnings were usually widely spread amongst the Roma.  (uncharitably, we
worried little for the gadji.)  was it a perfect system?  most certainly
not; but it was a workable one.

more often than no, the threat o being forcibly cast out from the family's
bosom was sobering enow to effect a amendment o life -- repentence, if y
will.  if, howsomever, such was not the case, a just punishment needed be
swift and sure.  but whereas the blood o self defence runs hot and to the
moment, vengence must be considered and cool.  yes, the right to life can be
held forfeit.  and no, i cannot kill or allow another to kill in my name
without being greatly diminished myself.  so it is with us all.  a delicate
balance must be struck in the health of the unit.

as to responsibility for one's actions, the buck always settles into my
wallet.  rarely have i fallen into a pit i didn't dig.  upon those few
occasions i found myself in the bottom o someone else's pit, i have, also,
found it prudent to stop digging.  never have i been in a situation so bad
that a little injudicious rambunctiousness on my part couldnt make it one
helluva lot worse.  this world is one in which we -- responsibly -- must
live life on life's terms, however imperfectly. attempted virtue --
incomplete as it may be -- is always preferable to deliberate malfeasance,
whatever its motive.  any social unit requires agreed upon tenets.  any
member has choices.  among these are: agree and obey, disagree and
disassociate, disobey and suffer the consequence.  efforts need be made to
impress upon any errant individual what constitutes unacceptable behaviour.

predictably, then, it is my opine that very few be beyond redemption.  those
few, however, constitute a cancer upon the body politic.  as such, they need
be excised in some -- hopefully humane -- agreed upon manner.

Ziguener Ziegenbock


   

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