From: "Old Goat" <olgoat-AT-kdsi.net>
Subject: Re: Organised anarchist mailing list
Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 12:37:22 -0500


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.


I know nowt of the Organise list, so I don't know if they actively exclude folk (after, of course, making value judgements -- "sorry, but you just don't meet our standards").  If they do, that's one thing.  But if it's just a matter of "these be the rules, if you wish to belong you must follow them," then that is hard to quarrel with.

My view:

If there is ever to be an anarchistic society, it will needs be a very loosely - knit confederation of ad hoc groups (each formed to accomplish a certain purpose).  They will be united only by their desire to live according to their precepts and by their desire to allow others to do the same. 

Membership in each group will be totally voluntary and no one will be required to belong.  Neither will any be excluded so long as they agree to accept and observe the group's rules.

It is doubtful that the State will ever be forcefully overthrown and be replaced by anarchism.  States overthrown by force are usually  replaced by other hierarchic institutions. 

Anarchism will only be established by the withdrawal of significant numbers of people from participation. (Suppose they had an election and nobody voted.  What if they gave a war and nobody came?)  Anarchistic societies will be fluid with groups forming and disbanding as conditions warrant.  It happens even nowadays, just not on a large scale.

 old goat
"One should count each day
 a separate life."  -- Seneca
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ze Sprout
  To: Iain McKay
  Cc: Chuck0 ; Jamal Hannah ; roger ; Old Goat ; brian callahan ; Anarchy Freeforall
  Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 05:31
  Subject: Re: Organised anarchist mailing list


  At 10:31 +0100 06-05-2001, Iain McKay wrote:
  ...
  >the organise and anarchy lists exist to complement each other,
  >imho. I don't think the list of principles blocks people,
  >it just specifies what the list is about so. If anyone
  >does not like the list of principles, then they can join
  >the anarchy list (as I would recommend).
  >
  >the freedom to associate implies the freedom *not* to
  >associate!
  >
  >Iain

  Indeed, and i'm afraid this all stems from when people base their actions on absolutes (like "anarchists are not allowed to form closed groups, because then they are no longer anarchists") instead of common sense. We all have ideas and goals to reach them (or is it goals and ideas to reach them?), but if we can't accept difference what is it all worth ?

  Erik

HTML VERSION:

----- Original Message -----

From: Ze Sprout

To: Iain McKay

Cc: Chuck0 ; Jamal Hannah ; roger ; Old Goat ; brian callahan ; Anarchy Freeforall

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 05:31

Subject: Re: Organised anarchist mailing list

At 10:31 +0100 06-05-2001, Iain McKay wrote:
...
>the organise and anarchy lists exist to complement each other,
>imho. I don't think the list of principles blocks people,
>it just specifies what the list is about so. If anyone
>does not like the list of principles, then they can join
>the anarchy list (as I would recommend).
>
>the freedom to associate implies the freedom *not* to
>associate!
>
>Iain

Indeed, and i'm afraid this all stems from when people base their actions on absolutes (like "anarchists are not allowed to form closed groups, because then they are no longer anarchists") instead of common sense. We all have ideas and goals to reach them (or is it goals and ideas to reach them?), but if we can't accept difference what is it all worth ?

Erik