From: Murphwild1-AT-aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:04:32 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re:  [CP-List] Decentralized opposition


"Also, I would tend to think that if someone is to blame for throwing 
innocent people in prison, it is the police, and not the activists.  It is a 
strange twist of logic to hold the enemies of the state accountable for state 
actions."


This is bullshit.   I hear it time and again.  Yes, the state is replete with 
instances of sending innocent people to jail, for myriad injustices.  But in 
the case of SABOTAGE AND ARSON, (not monkeywrenching) If you are going to 
commit crimes and then hide, what do you think the state is fucking going to 
do?? Let me ask you this:  If you committed a crime and KNEW someone else got 
arrested for it, would you come forward and set that person free?

You cannot divorce yourself from your actions and then just blame it on "the 
state." 

Captain Watson went nearly twenty years destroying whaling and fishing 
vessels in the high seas, a good percentage of the time with people on the 
vessels, without hurting anyone.  Only recently did someone, a fellow 
eco-warrior on his own ship (i believe), get hurt--a broken leg or something.

Mr. Watson proudly announced and did his "crimes" in full veiw of the public. 
 He was merely upholding international laws-and lucky for him, this kept him 
out of prison a lot of times.  Arson is not just "property destruction."   
Property destruction falls under the category of destroying bulldozers and 
other earth raping machines with sand or other adhesives, pulling up 
bio-crops, etc.  Arson and firebombs brings a different penalty under current 
US law.  

Why burn three logging trucks and send pollution into the air, when, it 
that's what they wanted to do, the ELF could have destroyed them in silence 
and emit nothing into the air?  Think of all the pollution emitted with the 
burning of those SUV's the "ELF" claimed responsiblity for.  Granted, it 
would have been time consuming to destroy them all in silence.  This is not 
the same as Rosa Parks sitting on a bus, prepared to do time for her crime, 
or someone locking down and being prepared to get arrested.

Abbey's book Heyduke Lives, remember there is human death in this, and it was 
a book of fiction.

Also, ELF (has) claimed responsiblity for tree spikings.  

Myself, I think the Government is ELF, or was in the beginning.  


md


> Dont you think monkeywrenchers would serve their cause better by simply 
> admitting the sabotage they engage in so innocent people who may not be 
ready 
> to serve time for crimes they didnt committ wont be penalized.

While there is some propaganda value in allowing oneself to be thrown in 
prison for political reasons, I would think that an anarchist could by 
definition do the most for the cause by remaining as free as possible.  In 
the case of eco- sabotage in particular, it seems that a lot more can be done 
outside of a prison cell then in one.

Also, I would tend to think that if someone is to blame for throwing innocent 
people in prison, it is the police, and not the activists.  It is a strange 
twist of logic to hold the enemies of the state accountable for state actions.

>"Dont do the crime if cant do the time"---bob dylan.  

I suppose anyone who commits a crime should be prepared to face the 
consequences, but that doesn't necessitate willingly handing oneself over.

> For instance, if i was going to spike some trees, i would be prepared to do 
> the time for my crime

Well, I wouldn't spike trees to begin with, that seems a very different issue 
to me than property destruction.  To my knowledge no one has ever been 
physically hurt from an ELF action, and they seem quite proud of that fact, 
so spiking trees would sound like a stupid way to further their cause.

> There are things Abbeys's books advocate which dont necessarliy jeopordize 
> innocents in todays decentralized oppostion.

Sure, but thus far the ELF has been completely successful in terms of 
avoiding physical harm to people.  I suppose it is only a matter of time 
before somebody screws up and gets hurt or hurts others.  But right now the 
press sounds like a bunch of morons:  "The FBI considers the ELF to be one of 
the nation's most dangerous terrorist groups, though no one has been hurt in 
the group's four-year violence spree."