File spoon-archives/anarchy-list.archive/anarchy-list_2001/anarchy-list.0109, message 237


From: Wes <ghost-AT-MNSi.Net>
Subject: Re: Shadow list?
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 22:54:13 -0400



----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandi & Scott Spaeth" <vespass-AT-swbell.net>
To: <anarchy-list-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: Shadow list?


> At 07:33 PM 9/23/01 -0500, danceswithcarp wrote:
> >However, I find the leftist/anti-imperial argument that "The US had it
> >coming," just a bit amusing.  I mean if 6,000 US citizens and
> >non-combatants had it coming because they reside in the
> >corporate/consumption state, then that shoots the shit out of all of the
> >anti-Hiroshima/Nagasaki arguments the left has made in the past.  If US
> >citizens were guilty and deserved to die then the rationale should apply
> >to the Japanese civilians too.
>
> Methinks you're confusing the state with the people who live there.  There
> are definitely people who've got it coming (here and elsewhere), but it's
> almost always their clueless neighbors who get it.

I agree... most of the analysis I have read (and written for that matter) is
quite clear that the attacks were wrong, but that they were also (most
likely) as a result of American foreign policy et al. That is *not* the same
as saying that the people deserved it. In fact, it is getting to the reasons
*why* this happened, which I think you will all admit is an important
question that *should* be asked right now.

> Uh huh.  "We had to destroy freedom to protect it."

Where is Orwell when we need him? Peace through war?!? *sigh*

You know, I'm very new to this list and therefore may be talking completely
out of my ass here, but I have personally seen *more* positive action in the
past week-and-a-half than in years of activism. The people *are* getting
together to discuss this and things *are* being done. In fact, it is quite
awe-inspiring.

A lot of the discussions, locally in any case, are happening in public
spaces and not necessarily on the internet from what I have seen. I don't
think that is out of paranoia so much as that a public forum is more
conducive to the kind of discussion that is needed. Newsgroups and
list-servs are great for some things, but not for everything...

Also, I think it is pretty easy to say that the masses are going crazy with
their patriotism and war-fever but let us not forget that the media *wants*
us to think that. The amount of censorship that is also taking place is
staggering... and that such censorship is occuring implies that there are a
lot of people questioning this... they just aren't getting air-time. Don't
underestimate their numbers. Think of the huge numbers of anti-globalization
activists that have been growing and growing since Seattle. Those people
didn't just dive under a rock after last Tuesday. Bush is dreaming if he
thinks that *everyone* is 'with' him...

It is important not to be demoralized by this. Consider the level of
politicization and the raising of the level of awareness that is going on.
Despite the rampant flag-waving, I have had more people ask me for my
analysis this past week than ever before. People are yearning for the truth,
and I think those of us who are 'in the know' are obligated to help provide
it for them.

I hope this isn't coming across the wrong way, but it is very frustrating
for me to see people who are obviously intelligent, well-informed and
committed to their beliefs slink away because Emperor George II calls for
war. If you oppose this shit, now is *not* the time to hide--it is the time
to gather en masse and show it.

Cheers,
WES

(Hopefully Larry will vouch that I am not competely full of shit :)


   

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