Date: 30 Sep 2001 17:59:00 +0200
From: ASWAD-AT-anarch.free.de (catkawin)
Subject: Re: some thoughts - the fundies aren't mad




The benighted stalker (= b.s. ...) wrote:

a lot of rubbish, not brushed by facts, therefore snipped.

For those who don't know much about Islam, some info:

The Qur'an demands tolerance towards the so-called people of the book,  
i.e. religions with a holy scripture. Believers in these religions may NOT  
be forced to become Muslims, or slain if they refuse, the only way to  
convince them is to give them a good example by the way one lives and  
acts. So none of that 'slain in your sleep in the name of the prophet'- 
bullshit. In fact, Islam does have quite pragmatic traits, since it  
managed to include Hinduism and Buddhism into the category 'to be  
tolerated' after the conquest of India.

Two weeks ago, I went to a local mosque for a common service which was  
held after (verbal) attacks against Muslims or people of 'similar looks'  
became known also here. During this service, both the Imam and the  
chairperson of the local Shura (Islamic council) said explicitely, Muslims  
are prepared and willing to live in peace with all kinds of persons,  
Christians or of whatever faith and also agnostics and atheists. So much  
for that.

As far as the concept of Jesus being the son of god and the concept of one  
god in the persons of father, Jesus, and holy ghost is concerned, there  
were also christian denominations not sharing the views of the church and  
in most cases they were wiped out in pools of blood for their blasphemies  
in the name of god - by the church, not by Muslims. Islam considers Jesus  
a prophet, a predecessor of Muhammad, but rejects the concept of a god- 
like nature of Jesus. Why is this presented to us here as a crime? And  
this from someone who, I believe, happens to live in that haven of freedom  
and civil liberties? Seems this translates as 'I am free to say what I  
want and you are free to say what I want'...

'The most onerous thing ... is that it shows how summarily Islam is about  
other people's beliefs' - after two millenia of people being slain in the  
name of god for differing 'blasphemies' or for adhering to other religions  
by god-fearing christians on orders by their church, this phrase just  
betrays a Euro-centric view of the world that comes pretty close to  
fascism. Only persons believing firmly in white superiority can read the  
bible without taking offence at the repeated occurence of sentences  
condoning violence towards peoples holding different beliefs with the  
remark 'and god gave them into our hands and we destroyed them  
completely'. This is exactly what a christian Europe has done for  
centuries to non-white peoples all around the globe.

In the Muslim empire, adhering to a different faith was not punished by  
being slain, whether awake or asleep. Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists  
etc were allowed to freely practice their religion, and religion also was  
never made a factor which included some persons in the ranks of those  
'worthy' of high political, administrational, or economical posts and  
excluded others. Ethnic and/or religious minority groups were even given  
the possibility to set up their own courts of justice according to their  
traditional law. People of these different religious groups were made to  
pay a tax traditionally, but when e.g. people converted to Islam in high  
numbers in Spain, this tax was reduced to peanuts because converts where  
welcomed when they really felt Islam was better for them and it was  
preferred that people stuck to their religions rathern than dodging the  
tax for economic reasons. Apart from this - nominal - tax, everyone could  
live freely with which religion they chose or was traditional in their  
resp families.

The benighted stalker also holds against Islam that the Qur'an casts  
dispersions on the validity and its authors. Big deal - this has been done  
by varying christian denominations, but - as I said before - many of them  
are no longer with us...., and not because they were wiped out by Muslims,  
either.

To persons as close-minded as the benighted stalker, there's a good  
recommendation in the Qur'an: "Seek wisdom, and be it in China". Provided  
he does so quickly so we don't have to put up with his outbursts of verbal  
diarrhoe here.

catkawin

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