Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 11:50:47 +0100
From: Ze Sprout <anarchie-AT-buelinckx.net>
Subject: Re: test


At 17:31 -0800 08-03-2003, Maldoror wrote:
>> Freedom is speech is being muzzled right now in the
>> u$. Libraries are getting forced by the FBI to give
>> up private user data, 
>
>this has been going on for quite some time. at least
>as long as i've been alive.

Sorry but this is not true. There was a definite positive mouvement to more liberty in the u$ from after McCarthyism up to 9-eleven. Then things got bad again. And although most of your posts seem somewhat immature, i doubt you are only two years old.

...

>> Don't you think there are enough
>> reasons to get out of your couch. 
>
>to do what? pick up a sign and march around?

why not ?
> ppl
>whether you call them the masses, or a mass of
>individuals, are too oriented around themselves to do
>anything. and i say this not from a standpoint of
>superiority either.

you now all those individuals in the "masses". Or are you just buying into what corportae media tells you ? If you realise this and you think the others don't then you are feeling superior to them. 

>it's fairly well known that the U$
>is a very individualistic country

A country has no mind.

> and given that not
>many do anything unless it directly affects them or if
>they do it's ignored by the ones who are the target of
>the anger the protests do nothing to change anything.

The problem is that there are many people in the u$ taking action right now, but it seems more difficult for a u$ citizen to find out about them than it is for people looking at it from 4000 kms away.

>believe me if i thought protesting would do any good
>here i'd be out there on the streets too. but given
>it's known here that the power doesn't give a shit
>what we say, i don't see how my voice matters. if i
>were in england or a country in which protesting has
>successfully worked in the past 10 years i'd be out
>there.

logically follows:

in the u$ it is known that power doesn't give a shit
thus protesting won't change a thing

in england or some other country protetsing has succesfully worked
thus there they don't know that power doesn't give a shit

don't you think then it would be a good idea to forget that power doesn't give a shit and just go out and stop the war ;-)

>> you being a lesser person is in your mind, not in
>> mine.
>
>thanks for the encouragement. ;)
>
>> you believe in the pointlessnes of action, and
>> that's a notion put into your head by "Authority",
>> like it or not.
>
>of course it is. let me tell you something i honestly
>believe that the only way to change things in this
>country is through violent rioting. i think that's the
>only way one could stand up to authority and have it
>matter even a little bit is to have them feel
>physically threatened. if the military had to put
>troops in the streets for fear of its own citizenry i
>think a point might be made. unfortunately it'd
>probably backfire and it would become even more of a
>police state than it already is.

that's chicken. if you really want to change things then it wil be much more difficult than taking up guns against an oppressing power. to beat them you need to get their way of thinking out of your mind.

>> the masses ? these are all individuals. Anybody
>> talking like that about the masses has this bad
>> odour of superiority.
>
>see above.
>
>> one bad experience does not a winter make.
>
>it is representative of the mindset of this country.

no it is not. don't hide behind the lack of news about actions happening right now in your country

>> still it is not very clear why you are on this list.
>
>okay. i'm on this list because i like the
>anti-authoritarianism that anarchy endorses, and
>because i enjoy being on lists with ppl who have
>similar interests. just because i'm a nihilist, a
>pessimist, very cynical and i feel powerless in this
>country i should not be on this list?

sometimes i'm curious why people join this list, most of the ones i know are in one way or another involved in anarchist or anti-authoritarian actions, trying to change things in the place they live and/or work. and although we all try our best to disagree about many things, this is what binds us. and ofcourse the idea
that you can talk freely to people without looking at their ugly faces ;-)

Erik
-- 

===========================================================================Ze Sprout  <anarchie-AT-buelinckx.net>
amour & anarchie & amour & anarchie
===========================================================================