From: "Dave Coull" <coull2-AT-btinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Opposing the war
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:43:30 -0000




I wrote


>> Erik has suggested that people should take some 
>> kind of anti-war action. So has Heather. Is Erik
>> a fascist? Is Heather?


and Greg replies


> no because they're not running around 


As a matter of fact, Greg, while I am sat at this computer
sending e-mail to you or anybody else on the anarchy
list, I am not "running around". Any "running around"
I may do is done at times when I am  _not_  communicating
with you. Later today I will be doing some "running
around", but, right now, I'm not.


> telling everyone they should use their real names 
> and going on diatribe after diatribe about about how 
> pseudonyms are so bad


As a matter of fact, Greg, the particular post to which 
you were replying made  _no mention at all_  of these matters, 
but concentrated entirely on the question of opposing the war.  


> telling ppl how they should live 


The post to which you were replying did no such thing


> and riding around high horses 


As it happens Greg, I have never ridden a horse in my life.
I have no fear of heights, and no principled objection
to riding horses, I have just never had the opportunity.
However, as my ten-year-old daughter was keen to learn 
to ride horses, I do seek to provide  _her_  with this
opportunity, paying for one hour every second week. 


> and looking down on others 


Well actually that  _is_  one objection to riding horses.
Generally speaking, it has tended to be true in many 
societies throughout history that the rich and powerful
were more likely to possess horses, and so they could
quite literally look down on the poor and powerless.
>From which you get the old proverb "If wishes 
were horses, then beggars would ride". 


> for everything from their sense of humor 


Hey, I've got nothing against humor, Greg. Let me 
know when you say something funny. You could put 
one of these  :-)  to indicate the funny bit.


> to their politik


You've spelt politics funny Greg.
Shouldn't you have put a :-) there?


> heather said i have the blood of iraqi and palestinian
> kids on my hands. i disagreed. she said i should be
> doing something more. 


That was exactly my point. In saying that you could
be doing a bit more, Heather was showing there 
really  _are_  a few points where she and I agree.


> i've done what i feel i can. erik has said i should 
> get off my couch. neither of them have babbled 
> on and on about it like a windup toy. neither of 
> them have annoyed me.


So, your definition of a "fascist" is "somebody
who annoys me" ?


> i never said there was no point in doing -anything-. 
> i said protesting in the -u$- would have no impact 
> on the decision that has been made. and given bush's
> speech tonight i was right.


Bush's speech does not prove you right. All that Bush's
speech proves is what has in fact happened, in a situation
where many millions of Americans have felt as you do,
that there was no point in protesting in the USA. If
we consider the now purely hypothetical situation in
which many millions more of your fellow citizens could
have been persuaded to actively oppose the war, then
nobody can prove one way or the other what would have
happened in that case. For instance, if the anti-war
movement in the USA had been stronger, then this would
have had an effect on the UK. It would have made the anti-war
movement in the UK even stronger, and put Tony Blair under
even greater pressure than was already the case. Bigger
and stronger anti-war movement in the USA might have
kept the  _UK_  out of the war. But like I say, this 
cannot be proved. All we can say is that Bush's speech
doesn't "prove" you were right.  


> i'm sick of you acting like i don't know war is bad 


I know that you know war is bad, Greg. But we were
discussing  _opposing_  the war.


> and basically trying to insinuate that i'm helping 
> the state by not protesting


As a matter of fact Greg, Heather went much further than 
I did, when, to use your own words, "heather said i have 
the blood of iraqi and palestinian kids on my hands". 


> honestly dave, this back and forth with you tires me.


I find it tiresome too, Greg. In response to Heather
saying "Don't make me have to side with the original 
one and only Dave Coull" I sent a very short post
simply pointing out that there  _are_  some things
where we are in agreement. You chose to respond 
to that very short post with a much longer diatribe 
in which you called me a "fascist", amongst other
things. So, starting the "back and forth" off
again was  _your_  doing.  


> please do not respond on this topic to me anymore


I will be glad to drop the personal "back and forth" 
since it seems to be getting nowhere. But of course
I do reserve the right to speak about opposing
the war, or anything else I may want to speak about, 
here on the -AT--list.


Dave Coull