Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:51:35 +0200 (CEST)
From: Joacim Persson <joacim-AT-ymex.net>
Subject: Re: owned vs. free market


On 4 Jul 2003, Robert Marlow wrote:

> On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 21:09, Joacim Persson wrote:
> > On 3 Jul 2003, Robert Marlow wrote:
> > 
> > > As it is corporations already work in exactly the same way as
> > > governments; they let their members work for them while they tax them
> > > (keep the difference between worker's product and wage),
> > 
> > You are assuming that the end product is the result from /nothing but/
> > labour. I receive a wage which corresponds to at least 1000 times what I
> > trade in as labour. The rest of the product comes mostly from oil. Precious
> > little of the produced value in the industrialised world is the result of
> > actual human labour.
> 
> No, I would say all production comes from land resources + labour.

Labour from humans only, or labour from humans plus labour performed by
machines?

> The
> lie of capitalism is that it argues that merely owning capital is in
> some way productive and requires some kind of reward. The capitalist who
> invests in capital and then gets someone else to work it is NOT being
> productive. The capital + the worker is the productive component (the
> capital itself being a result of a long tree of workers and land
> resources).

It would be interesting to see you and Greg debate what sort of activities
are "work" and "worth something" and which aren't. Stress etc... You two
sort that out.

Tip: It may boil down to the question of what a fair wage is. (or what a
fair price for anything in general, what a fair trade is, whatever is being
traded)



> <snip of story about fish & chips which speaks of "free trade" and
> doesn't address the issue of government & corporate power>

The issue here is the statement "free trade leads to monopoly/oligopol etc"


Joacim
--
Friheten är uppfinningens fader.  Freedom is the father of invention.  La
liberté est le père de l'invention.  A liberdade é o pai da invenção.  La
libertà è il padre dell'invenzione.  Freiheit ist der Vater der Erfindung.
Frelsiğ látur naktri konu ağ spinna.  Vrijheid is de vader van de
uitvinding.  Licentia est abbas reperio.  Vapaus on keksintöjen isä.
Rhyddid ydy'r dadogi chan chrebwyll.  Svoboda - mat' izobretatel'nosti.
Libertatea este parintele inventivitatii.  Kalayaan ay ang ama ng likha.
Hürriyet bkz. be belgili tanimlik babain uydurmasyon.(?)