Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:39:49 +0200 (CEST)
From: Joacim Persson <joacim-AT-ymex.net>
Subject: Re: owned vs. free market


On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Ali Kazmi wrote:

> But Joacim, what about the gardener without a garden,
> a fisherman without a river. What if a owner, who is
> not a gardener or a fisherman, owns the garden and the
> river. And the gardener grows spuds which the owner
> takes and fisherman catches fish which the owner
> takes, and in return, he give both of them a couple of
> pieces of dried moldy bread every day as the Rent for
> their labour? while he sells the spuds and fish in the
> free market for gold.
> 
> Basically, the above  proves that you can make up a
> story to prove any point, 

You have two flaws in your model:

Inconsistency.
At one point you make the assertion that the system is closed (there is only
this much ground, i.e. they live on an isolated island). Then you say the
"owner" sells the stuff on the market. Either he has no customers, since
they are all too empovered to buy anything, which in turn will empover the
owner aswell, or the fish and spuds is exported through some path which is
only acessible to the owner (i.e.  states exists, blocking the border), in
which case the system is open, but only to one participant. (so they are not
living on an isolated island) To whom does he sell the products, and where
does the gold come from, and why aren't there other buyers of labour
around, if the system is open?

The other flaw is that you make the assumption that there are only two
possible professions, forever, period. Market, labour market in particular,
is not a constant sum game, or humans would all still be hunter-gatherers,
or rather never left the trees in the first place. There would be no
culture or civilisation.

The point with my parabel before was to illustrate what trade is. I thought
that was obvious. It does not "prove" anything. What your point was with
your, eludes me I'm afraid.

> How many gardeners own their own gardens?

All I know of, except those hired by state/council.

Joacim
--
Friheten är uppfinningens fader.  Freedom is the father of invention.  La
liberté est le père de l'invention.  A liberdade é o pai da invenção.  La
libertà è il padre dell'invenzione.  Freiheit ist der Vater der Erfindung.
Frelsiğ látur naktri konu ağ spinna.  Vrijheid is de vader van de
uitvinding.  Licentia est abbas reperio.  Vapaus on keksintöjen isä.
Rhyddid ydy'r dadogi chan chrebwyll.  Svoboda - mat' izobretatel'nosti.
Libertatea este parintele inventivitatii.  Kalayaan ay ang ama ng likha.
Hürriyet bkz. be belgili tanimlik babain uydurmasyon.(?)