From: "roger, roger" <ineffable-AT-comcast.net>
Subject: Re: primitivism and anarchism
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 05:26:58 -0800


Hey Dave,

well, i didn't mean that karl M was an anarchist or anything, but i
just wanted to note that anarchists (generally and historically; there
aren't any absolutes i suppose) have shared the socialist analysis of
capital and it's effects on social and political structurres.  I
didn't think it was very controversial to lump anarchists, socialists,
commies, trades unionists, etc under the ruberic of 'the left' to
distinguish this common analysis.  i'm not fanatical about this, i
just see it as convenient.  to stretch the metaphor i used, leftists
are mammals.  anarchists are smart monkeys while socialists are big,
dumb (but dangerous) lions.  but both are far different tha,, say,
snakes and lizards (fascists for ex).

of course, anarchists and marxist socialists (of many stripes) quickly
parted ways on the well-known issues of the role of the state, etc.  i
actually like your division of the left into 'authoritarian' and
'libertarian'  wings.  that's a relevant dimension to distinguish
anarchists (with our penchant for concentrating on coersive political
structures) from our leftist comrades.

no, when i say that we're all 'marxists' (or more typically, i'll use
the term 'marxian'), i mean it in a rather trivial way.  i DON'T mean
that anarchist thinking ended with marx, but rather began there.

roger



>
> Roger wrote
>
>
> > no, Chuck0, i agree with dave's point.
>
>
> (This was Dave Dorkin, not me)
>
>
> > 'classical' anarchism, to bastardize a label, is CLEARLY
> > a creature of the 'left' (meaning Marx).
>
>
> Let me get this straight, Roger. Are you really saying
> that 'classical' anarchism is "a creature of Marx"?
> If that  _is_  what you are saying, then I am going
> to have to disagree with you, as well as with Chuck0.
> Here, again, is my attitude towards Charlie Marx:
>
> "I have never read Marx. Well, I read a few pages then decided
> he was a bore. Karl didn't invent the class struggle, he merely
> wrote about it in a way that impressed some people, using lots
> of big words. While it can certainly be useful to know about
> the history of the working class, you don't need to have studied
> Marxist theory to know that being bossed around is degrading."
>
> Dave C
>
>