Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:22:21 -0600
From: Chuck0 <chuck-AT-mutualaid.org>
Subject: Re: primitivism and anarchism


Iain McKay wrote:


> does it matter? Black, as far as I can tell, started this ball rolling
> with his book "Anarchy after Leftism". This book does have some good 
> points in it, shame that these are presenting in such a way as to 
> annoy the people who have most to gain from it. Abusive debate gets
> you fans, but hinders discussion.

So what? Bob Black is a provocative writer. He happens to be a damn good 
writer most of the time. He gets under your skin. He gets UNDER my skin. 
But I dont' reject him wholesale because of his style. Bob has a good 
bullshit detector when it comes to anarchism and that's what I like 
about him.

I haven't read "Anarchy after Leftism" in many years, so I can't even 
tell you what is in it. Suffice it to say, the person who is doing the 
most writing currently on post-leftism is Jason McQuinn.

>>Since these discussions has been spilling between this list and Infoshop
>>News, I think I'm going to expand the Infoshop content on post-leftism
>>and primitivism.

> yes, I've noticed the spill over. I also noticed one "Primitivist"
> talking about standing in the "ruins" after a revolution, being 
> worried that his comrades will work with actual leftists to recreate 
> "institutions". 

Which primitivist was that?

Durruti did talk about "ruins," I know, but that
> was because he was in the middle of a civil war and aimed to 
> rebuild (a better) world. Then there was the comments from "fake
> Makhno" that suggested that there would be no hospitals after a
> revolution. Apparently the fact doctors were highly skilled meant
> that it would be a good idea to get rid of hospitals as they could
> not be run in an anarchist way (because of this).

Makhno happens to be right about hospitals after the revolution. He 
should have a good take on this being that he is a health care worker. 
It would be very shallow to assume that hospitals will continue to exist 
after the revolution. Are we going to keep running prisons? Office 
buildings? No, we are going to arrange our society to reflect our 
values. There will probably be a few hospitals around, but I suspect the 
focus in an anarchist society will be on prevention, healthy lifestyle, 
and basic health care rooted in communities. We as anarchists don't see 
to simply run the existing world with anarchist managers or collectives. 
Alot of stuff would have to go because it is incompatible in a world 
without wage slavery and one that is based on freedom.

I hope that we have ruins. I hope that downtown Washington will lay in 
ruins, as will all of the prisons.

> If you do expand the section on primitivism, would you consider
> adding my critiques of the "green and black bulletin" to it?
> And do you want the copies of the letters I sent to Anarchy as
> well?

I'll try to remember.

Chuck0