File spoon-archives/anarchy-list.archive/anarchy-list_2004/anarchy-list.0402, message 138


From: "Kevin Carson" <kevin_carson-AT-hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ a post-left document?
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 03:20:01 +0000


This indicates, at most, that some elements of the syndicalist movement 
later joined the left wing of the fascist movement; and the fascist left 
borrowed some ideas from syndicalism.  That's considerably less sweeping a 
claim than you originally made, isn't it?


>From: "Aragorn!" <aragorn-AT-angrynerds.com>
>Reply-To: "Aragorn!" <aragorn-AT-angrynerds.com>
>To: anarchy-list-AT-lists.village.Virginia.EDU
>Subject: Re: FAQ a post-left document?
>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:38:05 -0800
>
>The Syndicalist Tradition and Italian Fascism.
>David Roberts
>
>p.72 "The syndicalists clearly fell heir to some of the antistatism of the 
>Italian anarchist tradition, but they were neither proindividualist nor 
>antiauthoritarian... Panunzio, for example, longed for something more solid 
>and structured than the simple, transitory groups of isolated indviduals 
>which he found in the anarchist vision"
>
>p 77 "For Italian syndicalism, the reverse would be true: the new morality 
>would be the source of the proletariat's will to a new order...We have seen 
>that the syndicalists from the beginning had wanted to transcend anarchist 
>conceptions of revolution"
>
>p 315 "Though heir to certain anarchist and populist perspectives, the 
>syndacalists still had participated in the vogue of Marxism in Italy... In 
>part, then,the left fascist revolt was a challenge to the dominant position 
>in the tradition of leftist opposition to the bourgeois order which Marxism 
>had managed to achieve.. In its quest for alternative solutions the left 
>fascist current resurrected a number of Marx's apparently vanquished 
>rivals--populist, "petty bourgeois" antiliberal leftists like Mazzinie, 
>Proudhon, and Sismondi...Sorel and Bernstein."
>
>Cheers.
>
>Aragorn!
>
>Iain McKay wrote:
>
>>hello all
>>
>>"Aragorn!" wrote:
>>
>>>I can see why you Lawrence and Jason like to play so much. Your level of
>>>concern about the kind of things you are concerned about are suprisingly
>>>similar.
>>
>>
>>sorry, but I asked you to justify a claim you made against fellow
>>anarchists. You claimed that they became fascists. I asked for
>>some evidence for such a serious claim. I assumed that you must have some, 
>>otherwise you were making stuff up. As you refuse to
>>provide any evidence for your assertion, I can only assume you
>>are lying. And that is just not on. Please prove me wrong, give
>>me some hope that as an anarchist you have some ethical standards
>>regarding your politics and your writing.
>>
>>And why I am concerned? Well, I'm concerned that an anarchist would
>>write an article and see it published without being at all concerned
>>about defending what they say in it or providing any evidence for some 
>>serious comments within it. It seems to me to be ethically
>>bankrupt.
>>
>>
>>>My apologies for not having responded to your demands on me in prior
>>>emails. I became surprisingly unmotivated after the fury and attitude of
>>>your emails toward me. I guess I just prefer a bit of foreplay before
>>>one starts in on me at full speed.
>>
>>
>>Please. I asked you a question which you refused to acknowledge,
>>nevermind
>>reply to. Now, since I have your attention, I'll give you another
>>chance.
>>Would you *please* provide some evidence about your claim about the
>>Italian anarcho-syndicalists becoming fascists and *please* explain why
>>"only" believing the "facts and science" caused this. It is a reasonable
>>request, I think.
>>
>>If you are "surprisingly unmotivated" to provide even a single
>>reference,
>>can I expect you to be equally "surprisingly unmotivated" to write to
>>Anarchy retracting your assertion as being simply a made up smear?
>>
>>Pretty please?
>>
>>Iain
>>
>>
>>
>

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