File spoon-archives/anarchy-list.archive/anarchy-list_2004/anarchy-list.0404, message 69

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:09:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: yippi yi eh (Saddam is still with the Iraqis)

--- dan combs <> wrote:
> What are you, trolling for bondage kicks?
> Must be the canuck beer.  That shit packs a wallop,
> neh?
> carp 

The Canuck Beer does pack a wallop, but have been
drinking Faxe, brewed in Denmark, 10%, it can drop
kick a heifer from 60 yards.

I prefer my bondage in person, where is Rosaphila
these days, BTW? 

The CBS article which broke the story (tagged below)
carried the kicker at the end.

"Two weeks ago, 60 Minutes II received an appeal from
the Defense Department, and eventually from the
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard
Myers, to delay this broadcast -- given the danger and
tension on the ground in Iraq. 
60 Minutes II decided to honor that request, while
pressing for the Defense Department to add its
perspective to the incidents at Abu Ghraib prison.
This week, with the photos beginning to circulate
elsewhere, and with other journalists about to publish
their versions of the story, the Defense Department
agreed to cooperate in our report."

Basically, CBS decided to suppress the story, and only
broadcast it when it came out from other sources. And
it seems that CBS is still sitting on the majority of
the pictures. If this story hadn't broken elsewhere,
CBS would have sat on it till after the elections.

The biggest propoganda, or spin as it is now called,
coup of the Bush regime was the equation of "Support
our troops" with support the war. If you spoke out
against the war, you were not "supporting" the troops.

The only way the Americans can truly support their
troops is to bring them back home. Mostly from low
income families, they are in the army for the meal
ticket. They are cannon fodder. Disposable instruments
of the will of leaders hiding in their whitehouses or
caves. Controlled by lies, fighting to enrich or feed
the megalomania of their leaders. That is the lot of
the grunt. Not much has changed since the gladiators
died for the Cesars amusement. now for an oilman's

Pictures, like Faxe Beer, pack quite a wallop. They
can sway public opinion much more strongly then
articles and speeches. (Remember the monk setting
himself on fire, or the viet cong getting his brains
blown out?) And America needs its opinions swayed. It
needs reminding where the "Buck Stops".
I don't think the american public will think less of
its soldiers if shown these pictures, it is usually a
tiny minority doing these things, but they may
question why they are there. And try to bring them

And the media, which so effectively drummed in the
"Support your troops = Support the war" message, 
are now conducting political self-censorship. Heard
Koppel is being pulled off republican local stations.
What next?

What are you drinking these days?



U.S. Soldiers Charged With Abusing Iraqi Prisoners

A 60 Minutes II Special Report

Apr 29, 2004 4:38 am US/Mountain
NEW YORK (CBS News) Last month, the U.S. Army
announced 17 soldiers in Iraq, including a brigadier
general, had been removed from duty after charges of
mistreating Iraqi prisoners. 

But the details of what happened have been kept
secret, until now. 

It turns out photographs surfaced showing American
soldiers abusing and humiliating Iraqis being held at
a prison near Baghdad. The Army investigated, and
issued a scathing report. 

Now, an Army general and her command staff may face
the end of long military careers. And six soldiers are
facing court martial in Iraq -- and possible prison
Correspondent Dan Rather talks to one of those
soldiers. And, for the first time, 60 Minutes II will
show some of the pictures that led to the Army

According to the U.S. Army, one Iraqi prisoner was
told to stand on a box with his head covered, wires
attached to his hands. He was told that if he fell off
the box, he would be electrocuted. 

It was this picture, and dozens of others, that
prompted an investigation by the U.S. Army. On
Tuesday, 60 Minutes II asked Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt,
deputy director of coalition operations in Iraq, what
went wrong. 

“Frankly, I think all of us are disappointed by the
actions of the few,” says Kimmitt. “Every day, we love
our soldiers, but frankly, some days we're not always
proud of our soldiers." 

For decades under Saddam Hussein, many prisoners who
were taken to the Abu Ghraib prison never came out. It
was the centerpiece of Saddam’s empire of fear, and
those prisoners who did make it out told nightmarish
tales of torture beyond imagining – and executions
without reason. 

60 Minutes II talked about the prison and shared
pictures of what Americans did there with two men who
have extensive interrogation experience: Former Marine
Lt. Col. Bill Cowan and former CIA Bureau Chief Bob

"I visited Abu Ghraib a couple of days after it was
liberated. It was the most awful sight I've ever seen.
I said, ‘If there's ever a reason to get rid of Saddam
Hussein, it's because of Abu Ghraib,'” says Baer.
“There were bodies that were eaten by dogs, torture.
You know, electrodes coming out of the walls. It was
an awful place." 

"We went into Iraq to stop things like this from
happening, and indeed, here they are happening under
our tutelage,” says Cowan. 

It was American soldiers serving as military police at
Abu Ghraib who took these pictures. The investigation
started when one soldier got them from a friend, and
gave them to his commanders. 60 Minutes II has a dozen
of these pictures, and there are many more – pictures
that show Americans, men and women in military
uniforms, posing with naked Iraqi prisoners. 

There are shots of the prisoners stacked in a pyramid,
one with a slur written on his skin in English. 

In some, the male prisoners are positioned to simulate
sex with each other. And in most of the pictures, the
Americans are laughing, posing, pointing, or giving
the camera a thumbs-up. 

60 Minutes II was only able to contact one of the
soldiers facing charges. But the Army says they are
all in Iraq, awaiting court martial. 

"What can the Army say specifically to Iraqis and
others who are going to see this and take it
personally," Rather asked Kimmitt, in an interview
conducted by satellite from Baghdad. 

"The first thing I’d say is we’re appalled as well.
These are our fellow soldiers. These are the people we
work with every day, and they represent us. They wear
the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow
soldiers down,” says Kimmitt. 

“Our soldiers could be taken prisoner as well. And we
expect our soldiers to be treated well by the
adversary, by the enemy. And if we can't hold
ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with
dignity and respect … We can't ask that other nations
to that to our soldiers as well." 

“So what would I tell the people of Iraq? This is
wrong. This is reprehensible. But this is not
representative of the 150,000 soldiers that are over
here,” adds Kimmitt. “I'd say the same thing to the
American people... Don't judge your army based on the
actions of a few." 

One of the soldiers facing court martial is Army
Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick. 

Frederick is charged with maltreatment for allegedly
participating in and setting up a photo, and for
posing in a photograph by sitting on top of a
detainee. He is charged with an indecent act for
observing one scene. He is also charged with assault
for allegedly striking detainees – and ordering
detainees to strike each other. 

60 Minutes II talked with him by phone from Baghdad,
where he is awaiting court martial. 

Frederick told us he will plead not guilty, claiming
the way the Army was running the prison led to the
abuse of prisoners. 

“We had no support, no training whatsoever. And I kept
asking my chain of command for certain
rules and regulations,” says Frederick. “And it just
wasn't happening." 

Six months before he faced a court martial, Frederick
sent home a video diary of his trip across the
country. Frederick, a reservist, said he was proud to
serve in Iraq. He seemed particularly well-suited for
the job at Abu Ghraib. He’s a corrections officer at a
Virginia prison, whose warden described Frederick to
us as “one of the best.” 

Frederick says Americans came into the prison: “We had
military intelligence, we had all kinds of other
government agencies, FBI, CIA ... All those that I
didn't even know or recognize." 

Frederick's letters and email messages home also offer
clues to problems at the prison. He wrote that he was
helping the interrogators: 

"Military intelligence has encouraged and told us
'Great job.' " 

"They usually don't allow others to watch them
interrogate. But since they like the way I run the
prison, they have made an exception." 

"We help getting them to talk with the way we handle
them. ... We've had a very high rate with our style of
getting them to break. They usually end up breaking
within hours." 

According to the Army’s own investigation, that’s what
was happening. The Army found that interrogators asked
reservists working in the prison to prepare the Iraqi
detainees, physically and mentally, for questioning. 

“What, if any actions, are being taken against the

"I hope the investigation is including not only the
people who committed the crimes, but some of the
people that might have encouraged these crimes as
well,” says Kimmitt. “Because they certainly share
some level of responsibility as well." 

But so far, none of the interrogators at Abu Ghraib
are facing criminal charges. In fact, a number of them
are civilians, and military law doesn’t apply to them.

One of the civilian interrogators at Abu Ghraib was
questioned by the Army, and he told investigators he
had "broken several tables during interrogations,
unintentionally," while trying to "fear up" prisoners.
He denied hurting anyone. 

In our phone conversation, 60 Minutes II asked
Frederick whether he had seen any prisoners beaten. 

“I saw things. We had to use force sometimes to get
the inmates to cooperate, just like our rules of
engagement said,” says Frederick. “We learned a little
bit of Arabic, basic commands. And they didn't want to
listen, so sometimes, you would just give them a
little nudge or something like that just to get them
to cooperate so we could get the mission

Attorney Gary Myers and a judge advocate in Iraq are
defending Frederick. They say he should never have
been charged, because of the failure of his commanders
to provide proper training and standards. 

"The elixir of power, the elixir of believing that
you're helping the CIA, for God's sake, when you're
from a small town in Virginia, that's intoxicating,”
says Myers. “And so, good guys sometimes do things
believing that they are being of assistance and
helping a just cause. ... And helping people they view
as important." 

Frederick says he didn't see a copy of the Geneva
Convention rules for handling prisoners of war until
after he was charged. 

The Army investigation confirms that soldiers at Abu
Ghraib were not trained at all in Geneva Convention
rules. And most were reservists, part-time soldiers
who didn't get the kind of specialized prisoner of war
training given to regular Army members. 

Frederick also says there were far too few soldiers
there for the number of prisoners: “There was, when I
left, there was over 900. And there was only five
soldiers, plus two non-commissioned officers, in
charge for those 900 -- over 900 inmates." 

Rather asked Kimmitt about understaffing. "That
doesn't condone individual acts of criminal behavior
no matter how tired we are. No matter how stretched we
are, that doesn't give us license and it doesn't give
us the authority to break the law,” says Kimmitt. 

“That may have been a contributing factor, but at the
end of the day, this is probably more about
leadership, supervision, setting standards, abiding by
the Army values and understanding what's right, and
having the guts to say what's right.” 

Brig. Gen. Janice Karpinsky ran Abu Ghraib for the
Army. She was also in charge of three other Army
prison facilities that housed thousands of Iraqi

The Army investigation determined that her lack of
leadership and clear standards led to problems system
wide. Karpinski talked with 60 Minutes’ Steve Kroft
last October at Abu Ghraib, before any of this came

"This is international standards,” said Karpinski.
“It's the best care available in a prison facility." 

But the Army investigation found serious problems
behind the scenes. The Army has photographs that show
a detainee with wires attached to his genitals.
Another shows a dog attacking an Iraqi prisoner.
Frederick said that dogs were “used for intimidation

Part of the Army's own investigation is a statement
from an Iraqi detainee who charges a translator -
hired to work at the prison - with raping a male
juvenile prisoner: "They covered all the doors with
sheets. I heard the screaming. ...and the female
soldier was taking pictures." 

There is also a picture of an Iraqi man who appears to
be dead -- and badly beaten. 

"It's reprehensible that anybody would be taking a
picture of that situation,” says Kimmitt. 

But what about the situation itself? 

“I don't know the facts surrounding what caused the
bruising and the bleeding,” says Kimmitt. “If that is
also one of the charges being brought against the
soldiers, that too is absolutely unacceptable and
completely outside of what we expect of our soldiers
and our guards at the prisons." 

Is there any indication that similar actions may have
happened at other prisons? “I'd like to sit here and
say that these are the only prisoner abuse cases that
we're aware of, but we know that there have been some
other ones since we've been here in Iraq,” says

When Saddam ran Abu Ghraib prison, Iraqis were too
afraid to come ask for information on their family

When 60 Minutes II was there last month, hundreds had
gathered outside the gates, worried about what is
going on inside. 

"We will be paid back for this. These people at some
point will be let out,” says Cowan. “Their families
are gonna know. Their friends are gonna know." 

This is a hard story to have to tell when Americans
are fighting and dying in Iraq. And for Cowan, it’s a
personal issue. His son is an infantry soldier serving
in Iraq for the last four months. 

Rather asked Cowan what he would say to "that person
who is sitting in their living room and saying, ‘I
wish they wouldn't do this. It's undermining our
troops and they shouldn't do it.’" 

"If we don't tell this story, these kinds of things
will continue. And we'll end up getting paid back 100
or 1,000 times over,” says Cowan. “Americans want to
be proud of each and everything that our servicemen
and women do in Iraq. We wanna be proud. We know
they're working hard. None of us, now, later, before
or during this conflict, should wanna let incidents
like this just pass." 

Kimmitt says the Army will not let what happened at
Abu Ghraib just pass. What does he think is the most
important thing for Americans to know about what has

"I think two things. No. 1, this is a small minority
of the military, and No. 2, they need to understand
that is not the Army,” says Kimmitt. “The Army is a
values-based organization. We live by our values. Some
of our soldiers every day die by our values, and these
acts that you see in these pictures may reflect the
actions of individuals, but by God, it doesn't reflect
my army." 

Two weeks ago, 60 Minutes II received an appeal from
the Defense Department, and eventually from the
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard
Myers, to delay this broadcast -- given the danger and
tension on the ground in Iraq. 

60 Minutes II decided to honor that request, while
pressing for the Defense Department to add its
perspective to the incidents at Abu Ghraib prison.
This week, with the photos beginning to circulate
elsewhere, and with other journalists about to publish
their versions of the story, the Defense Department
agreed to cooperate in our report.

Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs 


Driftline Main Page


Display software: ArchTracker © Malgosia Askanas, 2000-2005