File spoon-archives/aut-op-sy.archive/aut-op-sy_1997/aut-op-sy.9707, message 144


Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:45:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Harry M. Cleaver" <hmcleave-AT-mundo.eco.utexas.edu>
Subject: AUT: Re:  Netwar:Statement from NetAction


Glen: I don't know anything about Jose Luis San Martin, his political
background or motivations. His harrangue about the Basques sounds like
personal anger, strong feelings on this issue.  Perhaps there is a
concerted campaign to isolate/remove pro-Basque autonomy materials from
the Internet. I wouldn't be surprised. The attack on the igc site could
have just been an opening volly? But this guy does not sound like a
professional. He just sounds like someone with strong feelings. I guess
time will tell.

There is no doubt that the politics of regional autonomy are difficult and
vary enormously, as even a cursory contrast of ex-Yugoslavia and Chiapas
reveals. As usual politics are full of all kinds of people and sorting out
individuals, their motivations and practices from their ideologies and
declarations a lot of work. I haven't done the work necessary vis a vis
Basque so I don't have a lot to say on the issues there.

Harry

On Tue, 29 Jul 1997, Glenn Welker wrote:

> Harry,
> 
> I also received a long message from  Jose Luis San Martin, giving me a
> hard time for what reason I don't know, concerning the Basque.
> 
> Perhaps it's because I have 2 links to their home pages on:
> 
> http://www.indians.org/welker/world.htm
> 
> Do you think this is why he wrote to me?
> 
> It is scary to think of going through another Net War.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Glenn
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Folks: This bit of netwar should be of interest for two reasons: first,
> the cyberspaces we use could come under similar attack and the
> question about how to respond is being debated, second, the web site
> in question is that of a Basque group --highly controversial--
> interested in regional autonomy in Spain, the site of the current 2nd
> Encuentro.
> 
> Harry
> ==> Glenn H. Welker
> Tel:  301-731-4393
> Fax: 301-731-3224
> E-mail: nativelit-AT-earthlink.net   ghwelker-AT-rocketmail.com
> URL: http://www.indians.org/welker/natlit.htm
> 
> ---smartin-AT-eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de wrote:
> >
> > 
> >         I'm really sad when somebody uninformed thinks he/she
> understands
> > a problem just listening the lies somebody else told him.
> >         Maybe you should have a look to AI web-page (Amnesty
> > International, I think you have heard about them) to realize who are
> the
> > bad boys in this film.
> >         I have not a lot of time to lose talking about this "people"
> of
> > ETA, Harrai or HB, so I tell you in a while:
> > 
> >         - I agree. ETA had a way with Franco, and I was for it. But
> all
> > this is over. I can vote among 4 o 5 nationalist parties. Educational
> > and Political rights are controlled nowadays by the basque goberment
> > (with a mayority of PNV = Basque Nationalist Party). Herri Batasuna
> > are sometimes not a militant nationalist organisation but a MILITAR
> > organisation, being quite close to ETA (terrorist organisation)
> >         - Carlos Rodriguez doesn't say that schools, as well as TV
> sender
> > in Basque language are financied not by them but by the Goberment
> > voted by basque people.
> >         - That's right. Police are against Jarrai. But basque police
> > controlled (again) by the Goberment voted by basque people (in the
> rest of
> > Spain we have another one). There are persecution because people of
> > Harrai destroy bussiness, are profesionals in Amonal & Monotov
> coctels
> > and use storsion with basque people. They have all the rights
> avalaible
> > for all the Spanish by our Constitution, but they kill policemen,
> destroy
> > basque Industrie in worth millions dollars. And they are LEGAL!!
> > How many nazi organisations are LEGAL in Germany? I don't know so
> many.
> >         - Spanish prisons have "political" :) prisoners, who are
> condened
> > to more that two thousands (2000) years (in Spain isn't dead
> punishment
> > allow) hail because of 30 murders (ETA had murdered more than 800
> people
> > in the last 30 years,
> > among them 27 children younger than 16. Political aims for this
> > organisation are among others supermarks (Hipercorp Barcelona 38
> died)
> > "Exiles" are looked for by the Interpol as "possible" member of a
> > terrorist organisation.
> >         - "Ecology movement" :) 1981 Ein engineer was murder after a
> > ultimatum of 48 (48) hours to destroy a nuclear plant production in
> > Euskadi (basque land). Nuclear plant- building ist stopped, but all
> > arround Spain since beginning the 80's (nothing to do with these
> "people")
> >         - Euskadi (basque land) is part of Spain since the 16th
> century
> > it has an autonomy status in the Spanish state. Most of basque people
> > are proud of they culture, language and traditions, but they want to
> > be still part of Spain.
> >         - In 1987 Spanish goverment broke negotiations with ETA in
> Argel
> > after another assasination, thinking they couldn't speak about peace
> with
> > fresh blood on the table.
> >         - Palestine was stolen its land after the II World War.
> Ireland
> > was invaded at the beggin of this century. Please, don't try to
> compare.
> > Police in Basqueland are not allowed to fire, in Palestine they do.
> >         - There were people in the police who tried a "dirty-war"
> against
> > ETA at the beginning of the 80's (GAL Antiterrorist Liberation
> Group) They
> > are now prosecuted.
> > 
> > 
> > I send you a paragraph from
> http://nsi.org/Library/Terrorism/profterr.txt
> > 
> > 
> > *9>  BASQUE FATHERLAND AND LIBERTY   (ETA)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > DESCRIPTION
> > 
> > Founded  in  1959  with the aim of creating  an  independent
> > 
> > homeland  in Spain's Basque region. Has muted commitment  to
> > 
> > Marxism.  In  1974  split  into two factions--ETA/Political-
> > 
> > Military  and  ETA- Military; the former has  been  inactive
> > 
> > since  limited home rule granted in 1982. Despite the arrest
> > 
> > of  several leaders and terrorist cells in Spain and  France
> > 
> > over  the  past  two years, ETA-Military  has  continued  to
> > 
> > conduct lethal attacks.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ACTIVITIES
> > 
> > Chiefly  bombings  and assassinations of Spanish  Government
> > 
> > targets,  especially  security forces.  Finances  activities
> > 
> > through   kidnappings, robberies, and extortion  .  Bombings
> > 
> > are  sophisticated,  lethal, and  sometimes  indiscriminate.
> > 
> > Over 40 people were killed
> > 
> > and over 200 injured in ETA attacks during 1991.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > STRENGTH
> > 
> > Unknown; may have hundreds of members, plus supporters.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > LOCATION/AREA OF OPERATIONS
> > 
> > Operates  primarily in Spain and France, but conducted  low-
> > 
> > intensity  bombings against Spanish diplomatic,  commercial,
> > 
> > and cultural facilities in Italy and Germany in 1991.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > EXTERNAL AID
> > 
> > Has  received  training at various times in Libya,  Lebanon,
> > 
> > and Nicaragua. Also has close ties to PIRA.
> > 
> >                         -----------------
> > 
> >         Yesterday there were more of two millions demostrants in 
> > Spanien, 200. 000 in Bilbao last Saturday. Do you think they defend
> > the opinion of my people?
> > 
> > 
> >         Of course, that's only my opinion (and maybe that of most of
> > basque people) and when the blood their own brothers makes no change
> at
> > all I can't try to persuade them, but maybe you can be a little more
> > informed when you write about my land: Euskadi.
> > 
> > Yours,
> >                                 Jose Luis San Martin
> > 
> > PD. Sorry for my English, at the moment there is only german in my
> head :)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
> 

............................................................................
Harry Cleaver
Department of Economics
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, Texas 78712-1173  USA
Phone Numbers: (hm)  (512) 478-8427
               (off) (512) 475-8535   Fax:(512) 471-3510
E-mail: hmcleave-AT-eco.utexas.edu
Cleaver homepage: 
http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/index.html
Chiapas95 homepage:
http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/chiapas95.html
Accion Zapatista homepage:
http://www.utexas.edu/students/nave/
............................................................................



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