Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:45:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "Harry M. Cleaver" <hmcleave-AT-mundo.eco.utexas.edu> Subject: AUT: Re: Netwar:Statement from NetAction Glen: I don't know anything about Jose Luis San Martin, his political background or motivations. His harrangue about the Basques sounds like personal anger, strong feelings on this issue. Perhaps there is a concerted campaign to isolate/remove pro-Basque autonomy materials from the Internet. I wouldn't be surprised. The attack on the igc site could have just been an opening volly? But this guy does not sound like a professional. He just sounds like someone with strong feelings. I guess time will tell. There is no doubt that the politics of regional autonomy are difficult and vary enormously, as even a cursory contrast of ex-Yugoslavia and Chiapas reveals. As usual politics are full of all kinds of people and sorting out individuals, their motivations and practices from their ideologies and declarations a lot of work. I haven't done the work necessary vis a vis Basque so I don't have a lot to say on the issues there. Harry On Tue, 29 Jul 1997, Glenn Welker wrote: > Harry, > > I also received a long message from Jose Luis San Martin, giving me a > hard time for what reason I don't know, concerning the Basque. > > Perhaps it's because I have 2 links to their home pages on: > > http://www.indians.org/welker/world.htm > > Do you think this is why he wrote to me? > > It is scary to think of going through another Net War. > > Best wishes, > > Glenn > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Folks: This bit of netwar should be of interest for two reasons: first, > the cyberspaces we use could come under similar attack and the > question about how to respond is being debated, second, the web site > in question is that of a Basque group --highly controversial-- > interested in regional autonomy in Spain, the site of the current 2nd > Encuentro. > > Harry > ==> Glenn H. Welker > Tel: 301-731-4393 > Fax: 301-731-3224 > E-mail: nativelit-AT-earthlink.net ghwelker-AT-rocketmail.com > URL: http://www.indians.org/welker/natlit.htm > > ---smartin-AT-eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de wrote: > > > > > > I'm really sad when somebody uninformed thinks he/she > understands > > a problem just listening the lies somebody else told him. > > Maybe you should have a look to AI web-page (Amnesty > > International, I think you have heard about them) to realize who are > the > > bad boys in this film. > > I have not a lot of time to lose talking about this "people" > of > > ETA, Harrai or HB, so I tell you in a while: > > > > - I agree. ETA had a way with Franco, and I was for it. But > all > > this is over. I can vote among 4 o 5 nationalist parties. Educational > > and Political rights are controlled nowadays by the basque goberment > > (with a mayority of PNV = Basque Nationalist Party). Herri Batasuna > > are sometimes not a militant nationalist organisation but a MILITAR > > organisation, being quite close to ETA (terrorist organisation) > > - Carlos Rodriguez doesn't say that schools, as well as TV > sender > > in Basque language are financied not by them but by the Goberment > > voted by basque people. > > - That's right. Police are against Jarrai. But basque police > > controlled (again) by the Goberment voted by basque people (in the > rest of > > Spain we have another one). There are persecution because people of > > Harrai destroy bussiness, are profesionals in Amonal & Monotov > coctels > > and use storsion with basque people. They have all the rights > avalaible > > for all the Spanish by our Constitution, but they kill policemen, > destroy > > basque Industrie in worth millions dollars. And they are LEGAL!! > > How many nazi organisations are LEGAL in Germany? I don't know so > many. > > - Spanish prisons have "political" :) prisoners, who are > condened > > to more that two thousands (2000) years (in Spain isn't dead > punishment > > allow) hail because of 30 murders (ETA had murdered more than 800 > people > > in the last 30 years, > > among them 27 children younger than 16. Political aims for this > > organisation are among others supermarks (Hipercorp Barcelona 38 > died) > > "Exiles" are looked for by the Interpol as "possible" member of a > > terrorist organisation. > > - "Ecology movement" :) 1981 Ein engineer was murder after a > > ultimatum of 48 (48) hours to destroy a nuclear plant production in > > Euskadi (basque land). Nuclear plant- building ist stopped, but all > > arround Spain since beginning the 80's (nothing to do with these > "people") > > - Euskadi (basque land) is part of Spain since the 16th > century > > it has an autonomy status in the Spanish state. Most of basque people > > are proud of they culture, language and traditions, but they want to > > be still part of Spain. > > - In 1987 Spanish goverment broke negotiations with ETA in > Argel > > after another assasination, thinking they couldn't speak about peace > with > > fresh blood on the table. > > - Palestine was stolen its land after the II World War. > Ireland > > was invaded at the beggin of this century. Please, don't try to > compare. > > Police in Basqueland are not allowed to fire, in Palestine they do. > > - There were people in the police who tried a "dirty-war" > against > > ETA at the beginning of the 80's (GAL Antiterrorist Liberation > Group) They > > are now prosecuted. > > > > > > I send you a paragraph from > http://nsi.org/Library/Terrorism/profterr.txt > > > > > > *9> BASQUE FATHERLAND AND LIBERTY (ETA) > > > > > > > > DESCRIPTION > > > > Founded in 1959 with the aim of creating an independent > > > > homeland in Spain's Basque region. Has muted commitment to > > > > Marxism. In 1974 split into two factions--ETA/Political- > > > > Military and ETA- Military; the former has been inactive > > > > since limited home rule granted in 1982. Despite the arrest > > > > of several leaders and terrorist cells in Spain and France > > > > over the past two years, ETA-Military has continued to > > > > conduct lethal attacks. > > > > > > > > ACTIVITIES > > > > Chiefly bombings and assassinations of Spanish Government > > > > targets, especially security forces. Finances activities > > > > through kidnappings, robberies, and extortion . Bombings > > > > are sophisticated, lethal, and sometimes indiscriminate. > > > > Over 40 people were killed > > > > and over 200 injured in ETA attacks during 1991. > > > > > > > > STRENGTH > > > > Unknown; may have hundreds of members, plus supporters. > > > > > > > > LOCATION/AREA OF OPERATIONS > > > > Operates primarily in Spain and France, but conducted low- > > > > intensity bombings against Spanish diplomatic, commercial, > > > > and cultural facilities in Italy and Germany in 1991. > > > > > > > > EXTERNAL AID > > > > Has received training at various times in Libya, Lebanon, > > > > and Nicaragua. Also has close ties to PIRA. > > > > ----------------- > > > > Yesterday there were more of two millions demostrants in > > Spanien, 200. 000 in Bilbao last Saturday. Do you think they defend > > the opinion of my people? > > > > > > Of course, that's only my opinion (and maybe that of most of > > basque people) and when the blood their own brothers makes no change > at > > all I can't try to persuade them, but maybe you can be a little more > > informed when you write about my land: Euskadi. > > > > Yours, > > Jose Luis San Martin > > > > PD. Sorry for my English, at the moment there is only german in my > head :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com > ............................................................................ Harry Cleaver Department of Economics University of Texas at Austin Austin, Texas 78712-1173 USA Phone Numbers: (hm) (512) 478-8427 (off) (512) 475-8535 Fax:(512) 471-3510 E-mail: hmcleave-AT-eco.utexas.edu Cleaver homepage: http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/index.html Chiapas95 homepage: http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/chiapas95.html Accion Zapatista homepage: http://www.utexas.edu/students/nave/ ............................................................................ --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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