From: ty.meissner-AT-grape.net (Ty Meissner)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 05:35:00 -0800
Subject: Re: AUT: Unions and revol



-=> On 11-07-97  05:27, Aut-op-sy-AT-jefferson.villa typed to Ty Meissner <=-
-=> Re: Re: AUT: Unions and revol  <=-

 Hi Bill Bartlett,


      I couldn't agree more with your criticism of unintelligeble messages.

      I'm sorry to say this phenomenon is occurring more and more
      frequently.  If I were paranoid, I'd wonder if we were being
      "trolled."   But since I'm not, I just attributeit to the superiority
      of our white-supremacist education system.

      Ty


 Au> T: Unions and revolution
 Au> Message-ID: <v01510105b08954584185-AT-[203.17.23.117]>

 Au> Neil,

 Au> I don't want to be rude, or hurt your feelings unnecessarily, but your
 Au> last post was so unintelligible it was creepy. Reading through your
 Au> post was like crawling through dense scrub, but here goes.

 >Dear  bill Bartlett,
 >
 >The heyday of working class struggle /anti capitalist
 >unions  was over by the early 20th Cent as the  modern
 >bourg. state machinery incorporated the unions into the
 >legality of its structure. Craft unions are the most preferred by
 >capital when they have to accept  union organizing  but industrial
 >ones still are needed to keep the labor peace  for capital in key heavy
 >industry.

 Au> You appear to associate industrial unions with heavy industry. If so
 Au> you miss the point entirely, if not the above does not make sense to
 me. >
 >Unions are no longer workers reform/social  organizations as
 >in the 19th cent  as the developement of world economy
 >has changed the whole character of our epoch toward
 >the  labor skinning to  workers on an INTERNATIONAL
 >basis by capital of all nationalities..

 Au> Are you just stringing words together at random now. The  above
 Au> sentence starts by stating the obvious then descends into idiotic
 Au> waffle. I defy anyone to make sense of it as it reads. I can't even
 Au> guess what point you are trying to make. Suggest you spend a little
 Au> time editing your posts before inflicting them on us.
 >
 >Today the unions exist mainly as business operations
 >to control and police the workers.

     -------------------     snip !   8<  ---------------------

 >Some of the worst nationalist and derisive comments
 >about other workers  in the union i am in have
 >come not just from right wing yahoos but from the
 >local lib-lab  union reps themselves. I think it goes with the
 >the bourgeois  territory (collectecting dues--controlling workers, etc)
 >that the unions are duty/ideologically bound  to protect.

 Au> You're probably right, but what does it have to do with the subject at
 Au> hand? But why don't you just quit that union and join a revolutionary
 Au> union, the IWW?
 >
 >Workers for workers rule should of course work in
 >unions but in the main to encourage the ranks to take up  building
 >of re-newed workers combativity and mass actions.
 >Eventually in a combative  wave this might give impetus to NEW
 >political and industrial groups based  inside the struggles based
 >on replacing the system of wages slavery with workers rule..

 Au> Sorry, but again your sentence construction is so sloppy that *nobody*
 Au> could pretend to follow your meaning.

 Au> Bill Bartlett
 Au> Bracknell Tas.




 Au> --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---



   |\ zz   _,,,--,,_  ,)    Ty Meissner -- E-MAIL: Ty.meissner-AT-grape.net
  /,`.-'`'   -,  ;-;;' A strong sense of humor is important..the ability to
 {,4-  ) )-,_ ) /\     not take oneself too seriously. Which can lead one to 
<---''(_/--' (_/-   discover the pleasure of living one day at a time. -RRH



... Free Mumia Abu Jamal, Leonard Peltier, and all political prisoners!
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]


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