From: "battaglia comunista" <batcom-AT-ibrp.org>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 02:21:45 +0100
Subject: AUT: Re: the state ... 


What Commie00 wrote does not make completely sense.
                                                                                        
> so even trying to redfine the word state (or using
> words like "quasi-state") carries with it serious
> repercussions because most people equate state with
> hierarchy (even if unconsciously). 
This seems to be a psychological problem, i.e. not a historical/political one.
Is <hierarchy> equated with (perceived as) the state (and viceversa) by most of people? 
Well, as Marx said, the revolution (the changing of the mode of production and of the 
related social formation) is the only mean to wipe off the... old shit.

> organizing against the counter-revolution now and
> forever is a necessity. but using this as an excuse to
> re-create the capitalist (class society) social
> relation of institutionalized hierarchy is itself
> counter revolutionary 

It would be interesting to know how Commie00 would call the class organisation against 
the counter revolution. But it seems he's ready to call it as Marx did: proletarian 
dictatorship. Who/what's the subject of that dictatorship? The class organised in its own 
soviet (or council or general assemblies or what it will be). Perfect, we agree. But 
Commie 00 says also that 
> we also have to be careful not to fetisize the
> council form (as many council communists have) because
> with the releasing of creativity there's no telling
> what we'll come up with which meat the criteria of
> revolution. 
And even here we could agree (in the first part, having several difficulties in undertsandinf the second part .i.-e the... because).
Question. What is the condition (we cant talk about guarantees) for a proletarian 
dictatorship to ... meet the criteria of revolution? 

Again
> organizing against the counter-revolution now and
> forever is a necessity. but using this as an excuse to
> re-create the capitalist (class society) social
> relation of institutionalized hierarchy is itself
> counter revolutionary (this is why the bolsheviks were
> counter revolutionary from the get go... and let's not
> forget that lenin openly admited that he was building
> state capitalism). 

Here we can do nothing but sending Commie00 to read where Lenin admitted <he> (??) was 
building state capitalism. It's on the pamphlet "About the tax in nature" (??? 
Sull'Imposta in natura). There it is clearly stated that the state capitalism was the 
only temporary solution for the terrible conditions of Russia, while waiting for a 
communist revolution in Europe. Is the seizure of the power (destruction of the bourgeois 
state) by the proletariat THE revolution? No, That's the condition for the actual 
revolution. Did this start in Russia? Unfortunately no. The civil war and its tremendous 
damages to the industrial structure, the agricultural production, the proletarian 
vanguards and hence the proletarian soviets made the "building of socialism" impossible, 
unless a proletarian revolution in the west came to bring economical and political 
oxygen. The revolution in the West (Italy, Germany...) didn't come. The state capitalism 
was the only way ahead for Russia, alternative to an open counter revolution. 
Now we say that it would have been much better to have an open counter revolution in 
Russia, instead of the historical tragedy of stalinism and state capitalism, sold to the 
entire proletariat in the world as socialism. Stalin had to destory completely (thru 
murders) the old guard of blosheviks in order to implement the state capitalism. But we 
have here a concrete, hard counter revolution that completelyt reversed the nature of the 
party and of the state (no more a semi-state, but a new capitalis state). Here lays the 
weakness of comrade Trotsky who didn't recognize that and continued to politically 
elaborate as if Russia was a workers' state (even if degenerated, distorted or what do 
the trots want).
Thus the problem to Commie00 comes back: where or which is the condition for the 
proletarian dictatorship based on the workers councils to meet the revolutionary criteria 
(I'd say to actualize the revolutionary programme)?
I dio not want give here my/our reply (obvious, I think) as it would be a bit too long.
I.G.
mauro jr

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Battaglia comunista
Organo del Partito comunista Internazionalista
Sezione Italiana del Bureau Internaz. per il Partito Rivoluzionario
http://www.ibrp.org
batcom-AT-ibrp.org
cas.post.1753, 20101 Milano


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