From: info <info-AT-j12.org>
Subject: RE: AUT: Re: wheee... nationalism  ...
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:11:25 +0100



Sharon wrote:

I think in our analysis we have to constantly go back and forth between
looking at what is, and trying to figure out why it is, and what we think
ought to be, but we need to not confuse the two types of analyses. A lot of
us think that nationalism is back, some of think that certain parts of it
are bad -- that is probably closer to my stand, actually. But we can not
deny that among both groups who belong to the dominant category and those
who belong to the subordinate category nationalism is strong, in many cases
stronger than class consciousness.

It is in periods of active struggle that class consciousness emerges in its 
strongest forms. However then it is subject to draconian measures to 
destroy it. Witness the Sura in Northern Iraq which contested both Kurdish 
and Iragi nationalism. The invading armies stopped the war so that the 
Republican Guard could go and quell these revolts.

For me the crucial question is, why? I think there are a number of reasons.
Some are institutional and practical. How many class based organizations 
are
there in any given society? Isn't class consciousness not suppressed in one
form or another in almost all capitalist societies. The US is a perfect
example. But race, religion and ethnic identities are often accepted and
encouraged, as long as they don't upset the status quo. If you go into any
working class neighborhood, except for the local bar (which is still often
gender segregated), how many working places and meeting halls are there? 
How
many churches are there? People are simply not given any incentive to
identify as working class, and every incentive to NOT identify as such. 
This
is also true in countries like Morocco, which are even more economically
divided, and have an even greater % of the population on the bottom. I'm 
not
saying that people can not overcome these obstacles, and some people are.
But what would it take for most people to do so?
Sharon

I don't think 'identity' matters. Class consciousness moves in leasp and 
bounds when there is social movement. The social movement emrges into the 
light of day when internal tensions in the social fabric can no longer be 
held in place by such institutions as churches, football spectaculars, TV 
etc which encourage people to consider themsleves as individuals requiring 
a corresponding identity.


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