Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 18:59:07 -0700
Subject: Re: AUT: back to crisis theory
From: Sharon Vance <canito3-AT-earthlink.net>


This is in response to cwright, whose msg I include below as a reference. I
think that consciousness is important, I also think that action is important
and that a critical mass is important. All these of these elements seem to
me to be necessary to really endanger the capitalist system. And I think
that having some kind of vision of what you want the world to look like once
capitalism is gone, IF that happens before the world is destroyed, is also
important. 
I probably should clarify all my terms, but I am kind of tired so I'll just
be as brief and as specific as I can. My consciousness I mean working class
consciousness. And my action I am referring to a combination of actions that
can both challenge capitalism and still allow people to survive. That is
tricky and that is important. The trade unions can be accused of
capitulating to capitalism, and they do. They divide the working class as
much as they unite them, but they seem to me to be other only organized
institution in the US capable of bringing some sense of working class
identification to millions of workers and in helping them improve their
situation and survive the super-exploitation they are facing. And I hate to
say this, but only people are not suffering this type of exploitation or who
are immune to it in some way, can afford to dismiss this as something of no
concern. 
And by critical mass, I mean more than 30 (that was for Ilan), but
seriously. A handful of revolutionaries or councils will not overthrow
capitalism. There has to be some kind of mass action, and some kind of
consensus that capitalism is intolerable and worth the effort and the
sacrifice to overthrow AND that there ARE viable alternatives. And among the
vast majority of wage slaves in the US there is not this consensus. Far from
it.
Sharon

> From: cwright <cwright-AT-21stcentury.net>
> Reply-To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:55:14 -0500
> To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Subject: Re: AUT: back to crisis theory
> 
> Who are you addressing?  Please keep a reference point for comments in the
> e-mail, it helps the discussion.
> 
> other than that, consciousness by itself is not the issue (Lukacs went there
> and got mighty lost.)  But the denial of the importance of consciousness is
> also a mistake, I think.  Struggles, organizations and class consciousness
> have a relationship, and it is certainly important for self-organization and
> self-determination that self-consciousness exist.  All three have to have
> some relationship to each other.  For example, the Council Communists made a
> fetish of councils as THE form, but the German councils in 1918-19 were not
> seen by the majority of workers as organs of revolutionary overthrow.  as
> such, the Council form itself has no magical powers and here the
> consciousness of the workers in struggle is important in lending a different
> character to the organs of struggle.
> 
> There is no 1-to-1 relationship between the forms which organization of
> struggles takes and the self-consciousness of workers in struggle.  Nor does
> a particular consciousness lead to a particular set of choices in a broad
> sense.  Most social democratic workers considered themselves anti-capitalist
> and socialist, but the content of that consciousness, the organizational
> forms it took, etc. were relatively conservative in many cases.  In others,
> the potential of the council form as a practical organ of revolution failed
> to develop in that way because of consciousness (primarily the ties of many
> of the workers involved in the councils to the sociald democrats.)  However,
> the council form itself has certain possibilities for revolutionary
> self-activity which other forms (such as the trade unions) simply do not.
> 
> Hope this offers a bt of food for thought.
> 
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rcam" <rcollins-AT-netlink.com.au>
> To: <aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 8:37 AM
> Subject: RE: AUT: back to crisis theory
> 
> 
>> 
>> : So the issue of people'sconsciousness ... are issues that we need
>> : to consider, are they not?
>> 
>> Do you think consciousness is decisive?
>> 
>> Angela
>> _______________
>> 
>> <end message>
>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
> 
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