From: "dave graham" <davgraham-AT-hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: spontineity... Re: AUT: marxism vs. leninism
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:36:26 -0000





----Original Message Follows----
From: Sharon Vance <canito3-AT-earthlink.net>
Reply-To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Subject: Re: spontineity... Re: AUT: marxism vs. leninism
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:51:03 -0700

That answers the issue of wages as a means of buying things, but what about
as a means of exchange? Or as a means of accounting? How would global trade
look? I assume we would still need some global trade to create the dvds, cds
and machines to play them on, not to mention dialysis machines and other
life support systems for people in need of them, insulin etc.

And as a means of accounting. If you have ever lived in a coop situation you
know the types of fights over the division of labor, who is doing what, who
is slacking off etc. Some of these fights do come from our capitalist
conditioning, but these issues and problems will continue even in a
post-capitalist society.

Thanks for answering my question. No one else seemed to take it seriously. I
think they should. Most people in the US can not imagine a world without
wages and money, and not taking these practical issues seriously doesn't
bring them, me included, any closer to seeing a non-wage, no money based
society as a real, practical possibility.
Sharon

 >SNIP



Sharon

You have a way of putting your finger on things and some of us do take such 
things seriously. It seems to me it is PRECISELY those like ourselves who 
HAVE to make the effort to think seriously about the organisation of a 
'communist economy'.

For my sins when I was seriously influenced by the German Left [that  is the 
'Infantiley Disordered of 1921] of the 1920s and 30s, I made a real effort 
to uncover this strand. There is in existence a work of theirs called the 
'Fundemental Principles of Communist Production and Distribution', an 
Introduction to which is on the Subversion website [I think - Steve will 
correct me if I am wrong] and

. . . with some others here in Liverpool we attempted to put our thoughts on 
this together. I now think that the German Left [and our earlier work] was 
wrong in some respects, but nevertheless heroically wrong, because they [and 
we] laboured under the view of the workers as the 'producer class'. Our work 
was produced just before the Mersey dockers dispute broke out and only 
during this dispute did I realise how very dated this conception was and I 
became familiar with the new working class and notions of de/recomposition 
which were so obviously going on all round me. This was when I joined this 
list.

Sooner or later we will have to revisit this question - in the meantime our 
earlier effort is on line at

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3843/newrab.html

please feel free to rip it apart.

In addition there was a long and fruitful discussion a good while ago which 
I will have to dig out of the autopsy archive.

ATB

Gra


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