File spoon-archives/aut-op-sy.archive/aut-op-sy_2001/aut-op-sy.0107, message 273


From: "cwright" <cwright-AT-21stcentury.net>
Subject: Re: AUT: Re:gay-bashing Serb nationalists
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:41:27 -0500


Hahahahaha.  Indeed, it depends on who one is addressing, does it not?
Identity politics treats class as merely another identity while much of what
passes as Marxism treats oppression in a pretty sloppy fashion.  I am not
claiming that we should strive for a golden mean of some sort, but that a
revolutionary class politics has a lot of work to do to take other forms of
oppression seriously and theorize them more adequately, which in itself
requires a radical rethinking of our conceptions of class.  At the same
time, oppostion to oppressions which are devoid of class content happen to
overlook the relationship of those oppressions to the kind of alienated
human relations which Marx posits as the source of class itself, and
therefore of all other oppression.  There is no end to heterosexism without
an end to alienated social relations between human beings, which I think you
and I agree means the end of class society.

Anyway, that's really short and underdeveloped.
Cheers,
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Good Soldier Svejk" <goodsoldiersvejk-AT-hotmail.com>
To: <aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: AUT: Re:gay-bashing Serb nationalists


> Without wishing to seem gratuitous, I'm thinking the opposite - that the
> identity politicos should pay a lot more attention to production, to real
> material considerations, and to how and why Marx considered the
proletariat
> to be the revolutionary class that would end all classes.
> The queer lists I'm on are debating identity a lot - if in a rather
circular
> manner. I'm getting involved in some of these arguments, but must admit to
> considerable caution, because I cannot really comprehend "homophobia"
(foul
> word - stigmatises the mad) as an intrinsic part of capitalism.
> There is a great deal of work to do here.
>
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cwright" <cwright-AT-21stcentury.net>
> To: <aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 2:18 AM
> Subject: Re: AUT: Re:gay-bashing Serb nationalists
>
>
> > Indeed, a good point.  One thing that is very important is support
outside
> > the GLB community.  That's why I am always frustrated with people whose
> > politics remain at the level of the point of production.  We have to try
> to
> > engage and build resistance at every level.
> >
> > Peter, thanks for the fleshing out, really great stuff.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Good Soldier Svejk" <goodsoldiersvejk-AT-hotmail.com>
> > To: <aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 10:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: AUT: Re:gay-bashing Serb nationalists
>  <snip>
>
>
>
>      --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
>



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