Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:28:43 +0200
Subject: Re: AUT: After Goteborg, Genoa, violence
From: Lojis <lojis-AT-hotmail.com>


In Gothenburg a lot of small business windows were crashed as well and this
happened before noon when a lot of ordinary people and inhabtiants of the
town was there.This kind of "political action" had not much to do with the
EU-Summit which was the goal this time. Some said that the it was the police
who even started the rioting it may be so but it can't be  the main reason a
whole street was smashed. This smashing and not the throwing of stones and
the shooting is what is upsetting most people in Sweden right now and so
even Norway. The main street also for many of the people of Gothenburg was
not seen as a symbol for the rich but simply as a part of their town which
somebody destroyed.These are countries which is not very used to rioting. In
other countries that are it is the shooting which creates the interests.

At the same time Sweden was the country where american police tactics was
used for the first time in large scale in this kind of top-meeting. Prag was
different I think because as far as I know the police didn't intervene
before by surrounding any building or such.

I can see no use of violence which make the diffence between the movement
and the people bigger.  and makes it much more difficult to build up broad
alliances between movements.- In that case you don't respect the people but
just yourselves. The risk of this type of strategies taking over is also
much bigger with internationalists demonstrators not understanding the local
culture.

Lojis was in Gothenburg studying Genua
Who usually not uses this list

> hi all
> 
> I'm still writing my reply to the El Viejo piece  but in the meantime i'll
> respond to some of Sharon's pieces. it's about time we had a debate about
> the 'anti-globalisation' movement, i hope it kicks off now.
> 
> Sharon wrote:
>> The one thing I would add is that there is a need, esp. on the part of
>> those >'bad' demonstrators 'committing the violence' to make sure that what
>> they >are doing and involved in was not actually helping some CIA
>> counter-insurgency scheme, as happened in the 70s.
> 
> i'm not sure what exactly you're talking about here but i think the
> circumstances are quite different. back then the 'movement' had been more or
> less defeated when a small section turned to ultra-violence, now we have had
> mass violence from near the beginning of a new movement. let's keep in mind
> that the most violence from our side so far has been the odd molotov.
> 
>> I think the best way of >doing this is via a more sophisticated and
>> targeted approach to "violence" - >one that shows clearly who the target is
>> - police, repressive institutions, >and who are the people one is trying to
>> rally and support. Thus, an attack >on a multi-national corp. and not a
>> small independent business,
> 
> i haven't heard of too many attacks on small businesses, in prague the only
> things i saw smashed were expensive cars, banks, McDonalds and KFC.
> 
>> or >confrontations with police that show the police as the aggressors.
> 
> call me an ultra-left adventurist but i'd actually prefer to appeal to that
> section of the proletariat who sees nothing wrong with an unprovoked attack
> on the cops than the section that is disgusted by such acts. lots of
> accounts of the anti-FTAA protest say that plenty of 'apolitical' local
> people joined in the fighting with the cops. most people will unfortunately
> get their information from the mass media who tend to say 'we' caused the
> violence no matter what really happened. the media will call us violent
> hooligans if they want but much worse is if they can show us to be weak and
> pathetic.
> 
>> The whole paramilitia situation in Columbia maybe also could be looked at.
>> I >think the critical issue there would be can ordinary people in Columbia
>>> distinguish between a right wing militia and a left wing militia? Is
>> there >any difference in who they target and in their tactics?
> 
> yes there is. i'm no fan of the FARC or the ELN but i understand they mostly
> attack the army, police and kidnap rich people for ransom. the right wing
> militias tend to slaughter anyone they suspect of being a rebel sympathiser.
> 
> peter
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