From: info <info-AT-j12.org>
Subject: RE: AUT: Re: Black Bloc attacks Cobas, Rete Lilliput?
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:01:47 +0100



"Franco wrote:
i personally thing they should be isolated
in any expression of the anti-capitalist movement. I hope I'll be able to
send a description of yesterday's battle from my perspective tomorrow.

My response:
I am amazed by the stuff I am reading here. What do you want, Cheka
officers liquidating them? They are as much a product of the antithesis to
capitalism as other parts of the anti-capitalist movement?
Where do you people live?"

Franco wrote:
Listen, man, no one is talking of liquidating anyone here, and if you want
to criticise me you are appreciated to do it on what I have actually argued 


My response:
Well what do you mean by isolation in any expression of the anti-capitalist 
movement? Does this not mean identifying such people throwing them out of 
meetings, social centres, demonstrations. And should an anti-capitalist 
movement succeed denying them access to the wonderful new society so 
created???

Franco wrote:
(by the way, in the past two days I have lived in Genoa, which can't be 
said
of you, judging from your level of theoretical abstraction).

I am sure the fact that you have 'lived' in Genoa for the past two days is 
no excuse for your patronising attitudes.

The police shot a man in London on Monday. At a protest in Brixton there 
was a confrontation with the police and shops were looted. I don't think 
cars were set on fire this time. Certainly this happened in 1981 and 1985 
and also during the anti-poll tax rising of 1991.


 Franco wrote:
As for what to do with these guys of the BBs, what I wrote is based on the 
*practice* I saw
there: when they materialised they've been kicked out of the demo. Period.
The fact that they are 'produced by the contradictions of capitalism' (and, 
BTW, how many anti-global capitalism from the far right are produced in the 
same way as well? Do we 'understand' them also?) is quite little to justify 
their presence in contexts where they fuck up actions, collude with the
police, jeopardise the lives of comrades on the ground.

My response:
Why do you use such juridical words as 'justify'? After Seattle, Prague and 
Gothenburg anyone with any political nous could work out that they would be 
there 'justified' or not. Therefore it is necessary to work out how to deal 
with them and their politics. (BTW it is equally necessary to understand 
the far right, particularly those sections who are currently trying to 
nussle up to the anarchists).

Franco wrote:
Really, REALLY, two days ago Genoa's streets were not the best place to 
chat on what the
antitheses of capitalism produce.

My response:
The separation of action from theory which permeates your posting is a 
recipe for an uncookable cake.

As regards your later posting I feel this is much better considered - 
although I feel that the term 'demential' more appropriate than fascist. 
Clearly the links between anarchism and fascism have been long established 
and the shenangins of the Black Block fit in with a Bakuninist agenda - a 
shadowy unidentifiable group constituting itself as the invisible pilot in 
the eye of the storm. Combining a refusal to have any dealings with the 
press, this tendency revels in their ability to grab the headlines with 
pictures of torched cars and smashed windows. Then they applaud themselves 
as their mythical enemies in the press glorify/vilify the anarchists as the 
most important tendency in the protests. i.e. they use the very media they 
profess to despise to promote the shallowest depiction of themselves into 
the social imagination.

As for cop infiltration, this is a standard line which is produced time and 
time again. Where is the evidence? Without some real evidence why waste 
time on this discussion. It is the Black Block's double standards which are 
troubling here: now they constitute a collectivity, now they deny it 
disavowing actions they do not like as the work of different individuals. 
Just as they use other demonstrators to hide behind, their masks may or may 
not provide something for the others to hide behind. The excuse that 
individuals want to hide their identities from the authorities when engaged 
in confrontation displays their lack of a 'theoretical abstraction' which 
goes beyond having a punch up with the police.

In Prague there were three columns marching on the meeting, with the Blue 
including the Black Block. This at least had the merit of allowing the 
Black Block to take responsibility for its own actions (which showed not 
least their failure to grasp even the rudiments of street fighting). Your 
proposal of isolation will only serve to perpetuate their political 
infantilism by institutionalising them as outcasts.

Fabian



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