Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:03:48 -0700
From: Michael Pugliese <debsian-AT-pacbell.net>
Subject: AUT: Fw: [PEN-L:15472] Re: the significance of global riots



----- Original Message -----
From: "Yoshie Furuhashi" <furuhashi.1-AT-osu.edu>
To: <pen-l-AT-galaxy.csuchico.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:43 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:15472] Re: the significance of global riots


> >-How do you plan on doing the "isolating"?
> >
> >That depends on the collective decision of a movement organizing a
protest.
> >Simply separating away from the most violent protesters denies them
> >protection in the mass of non-violent protesters.  They can then try to
take
> >on the cops by themselves, but without the ability to then "melt" back
into
> >the non-violent group, they won't last long and most will not then do the
> >acts endangering the non-violent protesters.
> >
> >There is the more active alternative of shutting them down physically,
since
> >the non-violent protesters outnumber them.  This blocking need not be
> >violent, since unlike assaults on cops, if they then assault the
non-violent
> >protesters blocking them, they won't have the moral sanction even of most
of
> >their compatriots.  Most will not do it, especially if confronted with
> >sufficient numbers.
> >
> >Shutting down the violent protesters is relatively simple technically.
The
> >question is the political will to do it, given the individualistic
rhetoric
> >of those saying they have the right to do whatever they want, no matter
what
> >the collective will of the rest of the protesters.  All this posturing of
> >the "right" to commit violent acts despite the wishes of the vast bulk of
> >democratic organizations protesting is all just bourgois individualist
> >hedonism masking itself as revolutionary rhetoric.
> >
> >Nathan Newman
>
> Is there any practical mechanism to reach a collective decision &
> generate a political will to stop sabotage & pitched street battles
> with the police when the entire "movement" is just a large collection
> of extremely disparate groups & individuals who don't have much in
> common with one another politically, except the desire to protest
> against supranational institutions?  The Genoa Social Forum, I hear,
> "set up its own 'security service' to try to isolate and thwart the
> Black Bloc, who work in small groups" (_Independent on Sunday_
> [London] 22 July 2001).  The GSF apparently was not successful at
> doing so.
>
> At 9:59 AM -0700 7/23/01, Jim Devine wrote:
> >what about also politically isolating the violent ones, by
> >criticizing their tactics, strategies, and goals in a principled way?
>
> We can certainly criticize them, though there isn't much to say
> except that their goals & strategies are unclear.  It's not very
> likely that they'll look into PEN-l either.
>
> Yoshie
>



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