From: "dave graham" <davgraham-AT-hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: AUT: Serbia
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:01:57 -0000





----Original Message Follows----
From: Sharon Vance <canito3-AT-earthlink.net>
Reply-To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
Subject: Re: AUT: Serbia
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:15:27 -0700

I just searched my hard drive and couldn't find what I was looking for.
There was someone in Liverpool that was involved in a group, I think it was
"workers' solidarity" - I found him through http://www.labournet.net

He brought some Bosnian and Serbs to the UK to give talks. Unfortunately I
can't remember his name and can't find the materials he sent me. My hard
drive search function ("Sherlock" - I have a mac) failed me again.
Sharon

 > From: cwright <cwright-AT-21stcentury.net>
 > Reply-To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
 > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 08:46:44 -0500
 > To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
 > Subject: Re: AUT: Serbia
 >
 > I think Sharon and Peter both raised some important problems on this.  I 
was
 > appalled at the lack of support for the Kosovars here in the US, 
especially
 > as soon as NATO bombing began, when almost the entire Left turned to a
 > discussion of opposing US bombing of Serbia, but said nothing about 
Kosova.
 >
 > Now, I opposed the US bombing of Serbia simply because the US had no
 > intention of liberating Kosova, but rather of imposing a solution more to
 > their own liking, which promoted micro-states that definitiely cannot
 > survive without being totally dependent on one or another 'Great Power'.
 > Almost none of the Left groups went to the local Kosovar demonstrations
 > demanding that Serbia leave Kosova, even though this was a legitimate
 > demand.  I also think they had no way of addressing the many working 
class
 > people who supported the bombing because they saw no other way to get the
 > Serbian military out of Kosova (including most Kosovars, who did not
 > necessarily oppose the bombing, until bombs started raining down on
 > Kosovars.)
 >
 > Failure to address the reasonable struggle of the Kosovars against 
Serbian
 > domination seems to me to limit the effective opposition to US bombing,
 > otherwise we become little more than cheerleaders for Serbian nationalism
 > and Milosevic (even as we say we oppose these monstrosities.)
 >
 > News and Letters was one of the few groups that both defended Kosova and
 > opposed US bombing as not being a solution.  The more controversial part 
of
 > their position involved the support of the KLA, which they hailed as a
 > genuine mass popular force opposing Serbian occupation.  I am interested 
if
 > anyone has followed the KLA closely enough to comment on this aspect of 
the
 > question.  I have heard many conflicting things about the KLA, and from 
what
 > I can tell it was never a coherent political organization, but a 
coalition
 > of different forces both Left and Right.  Obviously, the US recognized 
one
 > section of the KLA, the most reactionary, which they have now set up as a
 > police force a la the PLO in the occupied territories.  I expected this 
step
 > and frankly I found nothing about the KLA to lead me to expect otherwise,
 > but I did not have contact with anyone except News and Letters who knew
 > anything about the KLA otherwise.
 >
 > The neo-Stalinists, of course, hated the KLA, painted them as total
 > fascists, and defended Serbia as one of the last "workers' states", which
 > only goes to show how reactionary that politics is.  At the same time, a
 > section of the KLA clearly engaged in anti-Romani attacks (however, one 
of
 > the KLA spokesman from before the NATO intervention appears to have 
opposed
 > attacks on the Romani and defended some notion of workers' power.)  So, 
as I
 > said, concrete factual commentary would help a great deal.
 >
 > Thoughts?
 >
 > Cheers,
 > Chris
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "Peter Jovanovic" <peterzoran-AT-hotmail.com>
 > To: <aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>
 > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 10:50 PM
 > Subject: Re: AUT: Serbia
 >
 >
 >> hi all
 >>
 >> Sharon Vance wrote:
 >>> Assuming that it is it brings up some important points for me. During 
the
 >>> war in Bosnia, and later Kosovo, I was outraged at the mass murders 
that
 >>>> were taking place. And I did see images of the Holocaust before my 
eyes
 >>> and I was outraged that once again the West would sit by and do 
nothing.
 >>
 >> what do you expect? the 'West' has been directly responsible for many 
more
 >> deaths than all the Balkan nationalists put together.
 >>
 >>> During the ethnic cleansings I was in favor of >some kind of
 > intervention.
 >>
 >> that's certainly understandable given the slaughter that was taking 
place
 >> but it is still wrong. the West intervened because it suited their
 > interests
 >> not for any humanitarian motive. Bosnia and Kosovo are basically NATO
 >> colonies these days. better than mass slaughter perhaps but not what all
 > the
 >> leftist cheerleaders for bombing wanted.
 >>
 >>> And I have to admit I was happy to hear that Milosovic was going to 
stand
 >>> trial for war crimes.
 >>
 >> the war crimes tribunal tramples over many of the much hailed standards 
of
 >> western courts. there's stuff at www.counterpunch.org about what a
 > kangaroo
 >> court it is. that said i don't particularly care what happens to
 > milosevic,
 >> but i'd like to see clinton, blair, schroeder etc up before the court 
too.
 >> milosevic was very lucky that the serbian opposition parties were able 
to
 >> stop the enraged serbian proletarians from hanging  him from the nearest
 >> lamp post last October 5.
 >>
 >>> Russia. This means supporting the Serbian people in their fight against
 >>>> globalization, neo-liberalism, and capitalist domination, but not in
 >>> their >defense of Milosovic, which is what this website seems to be
 >>> advocating.
 >>
 >> milosevic doesn't exactly have a lot of support among the serbian
 >> population, only a few thousand protested him being sent to the hague. 
he
 >> could well have more support among Western paleo-Stalinists than in
 > Serbia.
 >>
 >>> Are there any groups in Serbia that are doing this while at the same 
time
 >>>> denouncing nationalism and attacks on other ethnic groups and ethnic
 >>>> minorities?
 >>
 >> there's a small anarchist scene in Belgrade. they seem to be stuck in 
the
 >> usual anarchist activist dead ends, when i was there last november they
 > were
 >> doing something for Buy Nothing Day. BND is bad enough in the west but 
in
 > a
 >> country where typical pay is 150 Deutsche Marks a month it's ludicrous.
 >> capital has already imposed plenty of it's own buy nothing days on the
 >> people.
 >>
 >> lastly i'll declare my bias. a NATO cruise missile hit a central heating
 >> plant 300 metres from my aunt's flat in Belgrade in 1999 so i'm
 >> understandably not in favour of intervention.
 >>
 >> No War but the Class War
 >> peter
 >>
 >> 
_________________________________________________________________________
 >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at 
http://www.hotmail.com.
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
 >>
 >
 >
 >
 > --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---



      --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---

Are you referring to Bob Myers and Workers Aid?

gra

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.



     --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---