File spoon-archives/aut-op-sy.archive/aut-op-sy_2001/aut-op-sy.0108, message 70


Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 14:02:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: commie zero zero <commie00-AT-yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AUT: Maoism? Not Really.


once again, jamal, as has happened many times over, on
many different lists, you have ignored what i said.
and what you didn't ignore, you purposfully misread so
that you can make some ideological point which has
very little to do with the issues at hand.

> Hmm. Well, I think the thing is, here, is that those
> who commie00 calls
> "anarcho-maoists" do not openly call themselves
> Maoists or praise
> mao... they are more secretive about it. (specificly
> I mean ABCF... but
> their "maoism" basicly means supporting nationalist
> prisoners, and
> supporting the idea of armed stuggle in some distant
> revolutionary time,
> which may or may not actualy mean "maoism").

the problem isn't the support of nationalist
prisoners, or support for armed struggle as an aspect
of revolution. the former is just a good thing to do,
while the latter is just being realisitc, from my
point of view. 

the real problem is that many anarchists, including
anarchists in the abcf, make use of mao's "mass line"
theory of vanguardism. this is where you find out what
people are struggling against, come up with a theory
of how these struggles relate (so far not a problem,
and not vanguardist) and then (and here's where the
vanguardism comes in) take over those struggles in the
name of "the people" as its vanguard with the platform
based on the "mass line". 

taking over struggles in this way can have many
different forms, from overt vanguardist party
organizations (such as the black panthers) to
vanguardist streets actions (such as the black bloc at
times). 

> In the
> case of ARA, ARA is,
> surprise-surprise, not an anarchist organization. 

no shit. but a large chunk of ara locals are
anarchists. however, this is not what i was refering
to... the specific document i was refering to was
signed by ara anarchists. and i was criticizing them.

> In the case of these "Leninist" autonomists, they
> have appariently not
> tried to hide their devotion to Lenin at all.

"devotion" is an intensely strong word. so is calling
all these folks "leninists". many of them just don't
reject lenin in total, and some carry some admiration
for him. this does not = devotion or leninism. you are
being melodramatic. 

> The Green Mountain Anarchist Collective's
> suggestions for greater levels
> of organization for the black bloc is not really
> maoist..

the suggestion for greater levles of organization is
not the problem. if you have been reading my posts on
the nefac list you know that i have no trouble with
organization. and if the document was only about
organization, i wouldn't really care about it and
would agree that it is councilist / makhnoist... 

but the framework they build around this part in their
statement is intensely vanguardist. even tho it is not
overtly stated, it basically says: "we know what's
best, so we have to go out there and show our class
how its done". this is elitist and this is
vanguardist. 

personally, i think the makhnovist trend, in some
ways, is one of the best within the anarchist
tradition.  
> Since autonomism comes from marxism, it is a given
> that autonomism and
> organization of some significant degree go
> hand-in-hand, I would
> assume. 

this is not necessarily so. the council communist
trend has at times been highly anti-organizationalist.
and marx himself said that its silly to try to force
organizations in non-revolutionary times, and said
that the "party" would rise organically from below out
of the working class in times of mass class struggle,
and would not / could not be forced on the class from
above. 
> Which brings me to the final thing... commie00 says
> anarchists who
> try to spread their ideas or set examples are being
> elitist, vangaurdist, 
> or what-have-you.  All I can say is that a social
> movement that works to
> make itself grow and spread it's ideas will continue
> to exist, while a
> movement that does nothing to influence others
> (besides perhaps writing
> theory that is tailored to sound perfect and
> "harmless".)

there are two problems here: 1) is that the anarchists
i am criticizing do a lot more than try to spread
their ideas and be apart of political dialogue within
the our class. they think that everyone should follow
their lead, tho they would never put it like that.
this is the most dangerous kind of vanguardism...
vanguardism that doesn't know its vanguardist. 

2) the idea that anarchISM as an ideology can or
should spread is itself vanguardist. as
revolutionaries, we should not be focusing on the
spread of ideologies, but on understanding what we are
up against, coming up with solutions, and putting
these ideas in practice. this includes a degree of
propaganda, but only to the point of effectively
arguing our ideas and observations. 

this is where the idea of communism as the movement of
the working class toward community is so important. it
is not an ideology that can spread. it is a movement,
a large, various contradictory movement, which we are
all apart of. we exist inside of it. trying to take
over this movement, thru ideas or actions, is
vanguardist. 

see: the problem is not thinking you are right, or
arguing for your ideas. the problem is 1) letting
ideas become rigid so that they fall out of wack with
reality, and 2) forcing your ideas on people / vying
for the position of "leadership of ideas". theoretical
activity within the commuist movement must consist of
discussion and discourse, NOT oratory and ideology. 

> Vangaurdism is a specific Leninist idea that a small
> elite know what is
> best for the rest of society. Anarchists reject
> this, and while
> they activly spread their ideas, they realize that
> people are free to
> reject them, or modify them based on their own
> situation/conditions.

it is wrong to say "Anarchist reject this" because in
reading the document signed by sections of ara and
green mountain it is clear that they do think that
"anarchists" (who are a small group) are an elite who
know what's best. 

if you, as an anarchist, are not willing to criticize
anarchists and call them out on their vanguardism,
then you have a serious problem on your hands.

====commie00
---------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/commie00
---------------------------------

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