Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:32:45 +0200 (CEST)
From: Birgit Bock <birgit.bock-AT-student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: Re: AUT: strategy


Ok commie, I got your point. My last post was too  "Leninist imperialist"
and I  have not yet got the new
Popular jargon on this list down.  I'll be sure to leave out the anti
imperialist phases
And swap them out with your new terms. Thanks for correcting me on those
oh so many points.
But lets not beat around the bush, I think that your view of things feels
a little bit wishy washy. So what if states are rogue states. The Pentagon
will tell me that. It sounds like you are trying to say that you position
is more liberated than mine, but let me tell you I choose my words for my
own reasons, so let me express my views the way I see things. If you want
to be "disturbed" go watch your local evening news, and let a crack pot
commie say what he thinks. Just because we have read some thoery  and can
argrue the positions of  big thinkers does not me we have sink to this
level.

Jeremiah



On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, commie00 wrote:

> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 14:01:57 -0400
> From: commie00 <commie00-AT-yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> Subject: Re: AUT: strategy
>
> jeremiah
>
> i'm pretty disturbed by your insistance that somehow "western governments"
> belong to those who live in them by the continued use of the word "our".
> this misses the entire fabric of capitalism: class.
>
> that is: governments are the collective bodies of the ruling class. the
> spectacle of participation is just that: spectacle. we can in no way
> fundamentally participate in the functioning of governments due to the
> simple fact of our class position. ((which is, of course, a class position
> we share with the bulk of people on the world (whether you call this class
> "working class" or "multitude" or "proletariat" or whatnot is immaterial at
> this point).))
>
> i'm also disturbed by the stench of leninist anti-imperialism in what you
> say, which makes it sound like the working classes of "oppressed nations"
> somehow have something in common with the ruling classes who oppress them
> within those nations.
>
> on one hand: this struggle is one between ruling classes for the control of
> labour power in specific regions. on the one side we have "empire" (the
> global capitalist system / global ruling class... made up of the ruling
> classes of not only western states, but also nearly every state in the
> world... "first world" and "third world"), and on the other we have "rogue
> states", which are ruling classes who operate outside of empire.
>
> these rogue states, for one reason or another (usually ideological), reject
> the imperial model and are constantly waging a war against empire for an
> expansion of their powers, that is: an expansion of their control of labour
> power, and an end to the efforts of empire to envelope them into the fold.
>
> on the other hand: this struggle is all about decomposition: reversing the
> recomposition of the working class which has been taking place at least
> since the zapatista revolt in 1994, and which is begining to open up
> possibilities which threaten empire. naturally, this scares the hell out of
> the ruling class, as a look their their press the last 7 years shows.
>
> this all also serves the interests of the ruling classes in the rogue states
> who, while dealing with a working class much less composed than the rest of
> the world at current, still must also decompose growing recomposition (a
> good example of the recomposition is the wimmin's movements in afghanistan).
> these ruling classes can accomplish this in much the same way as the
> imperial ruling class does: thru an appeal to nationalism
>
> (on the imperial side, interestingly, appeals to "global civil society", and
> such, are being made which in some ways undermines nationalism in favor of a
> global idenitity fighting the global threat of terrorism. an interesting
> result of this was the flag waver i talked to the other day who, while
> waving his u.s. flag, got all misty eyed while taking about "how beautiful
> it is that people all over the world, even many arabs, are coming together
> as human beings to fight terrorism". i've been hearing a lot of this
> lately... way more than i expected. and it seems to be increasing.)
>
>
>
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