Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 12:55:27 +1000
From: Sergio Fiedler <s.fiedler-AT-unsw.edu.au>
Subject: Re: AUT: Is social democracy counter-revolutionary?


Seba y others,

I am open minded about the use of the word. But the notion of
counter-revolution is a bit more profound than a factional strugggles between
the socialists and anarchists within the workers movement. Expeling some one
from a movement certainly can be really a bad practice but hardly amount to a
counter-revolution. Counter-revolution is the radical process of restrcuring
society along extremely reactionary lines in order to maintain capitalism
going, it is a social process, not interfactional fighting. It is directly
proportional to a revolution in terms of the social impact.

Certainly Peron and Mussolini have ideological things in common, however, the
compositions of their movements and policies were quite different. Peron was
the leader of a nationalist working class based mass movement against
imperialism and the local oligarchy. The Argentinian military repressed
Peronism a number of times. It was also a diverse moevement and in fact very
contradictory with a extremelly strong far left section grouped around the
Montoneros and workplace activists and with also an extremelly strong Fascist
wing grouped around the Triple A (Argentinian Anti-communist Action). Of course
the relation betwen these two sections were of total antagonism. People just
need to remember the Eseiza shootout and massacre when Peron retruned from
exile in the early 70s. Peronism exercised total control over the workers
movement, but a number of socialist and revolutionary groups could work within
it. Mussolini's fascism had no progressive elemenst at all.

Cheers

Sergio

Sebastian Osorio wrote:

> Hi.
> What would fascists like Mussolini and Peron be? They also based their power
> on worker organization. Just like social democrats/reformists?
>
> They didnt try to destroy bureaucratic, worker organizations at all, but the
> revolutionary (leftist)attempts only. They were only counter-revolutionary
> in this sense, but still..
> That is also what social democrats in sweden has done.
>
> In early social democratic workers movement in sweden for example there were
> two fractions one called reformist and the other anarchist(the term used for
> the revolutionary standpoint). The latter one was expelled 1891 for being an
> "anti-socialist social theory" and soon thereafter persecution begins.
>
> /sebastian
>
> >From: Sergio Fiedler <s.fiedler-AT-unsw.edu.au>
> >Reply-To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> >To: aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu
> >Subject: Re: AUT: Is social democracy counter-revolutionary?
> >Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 02:37:59 +1000
> >
> >At least as I learnt it the meaning of counter-revolution is quite
> >specific.
> >Certainly reformists are against revolution, and the in the broadest sense
> >of
> >the word, yes they could be called counter-revolutionary. But there is a
> >more
> >precise definition.  Counter-revolution is a right-wing response to a
> >revolutionary situation or crisis like reformism, but it is based on a
> >violence against workers which is directly proportional to the
> >radicalisation
> >of the workers class itsefl. In others words, Hiltler, Pinochet, Franco,
> >Neo-liberalism are counter-revolutionary because they seek to complately
> >destroy working class organisations, even bureaucratic ones. Reformism, on
> >the
> >other hand, bases its power on some form of worker organisation.
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Sergio
> >
> >Michael Handelman wrote:
> >
> > > It seems to me, that social democracy is quite
> > > counter-revolutionary, as it transforms revolutionary
> > > workers demands into reformist ones, which capital can
> > > easily handle.
> > >
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