From: "cwright" <cwright-AT-21stcentury.net> Subject: AUT: Re: Why People Join Vanguard Organizations? Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:03:51 -0500 This is kind of two things blurred together, so I apologize for the non-transition... Thomas, What you read or do not is not that important. I joined the US section of Lutte Ouvriere, called Spark. I read almost only 'classics': Marx, Egnels, Lenin, Trotsky, Plekhanov, Kautsky, Bukharin, Luxemburg, etc. Party literature was not promoted, we did not sell the newspaper to middle class people (e.g. students, at L stops in 'middle class' neighborhoods, etc.), but only to workers at sales in working class neighborhoods and at workplaces (which we would go to every week, at the same time on the same day, no matter what the weather and only missing for health reasons.) The magazine was mostly only for people interested in our organization and reading Marx, Engels, etc with us. In this sense, the group did not promote the specialness of its politics in the usual middle class way. Also, Spark did not create much of a social life. Militants were not encourage to know each others home phones or addresses or to know each others' real names (we planned meetings in advance and used political names.) The group did not encourage a lot of 'socializing', preferring that members spend time recruiting instead of talking to each other. As such, Spark was actually pretty much socially alienated. Rather, what Spark did was create an identity of being 'serious', 'disciplined', 'non-sectarian' (we were encourage to discuss and debate with other groups and Spark had no fear of our folks meeting with other people, since we were usually much better educated politically.) I think in some ways Spark articulated a desire for real intellectual seriousness and independence, unlike the party-line think of most groups. You were expected to read a book a week. You were expected to give classes, which you were expected to seriously and rigorously prepare. Spark was not a 'partying party', nor did they ever consider themselves a party. They expected a party to form out of dialogue and discussion between organizations and by some organization proving itself through its political work, not in theoretical debate. However, Spark also knew how to play on middle class guilt, how to entrap people in the kind of 'professional workaholic' relations common in this society. Spark had an element of cloak and dagger that gave it some romanticism. And Spark had ideas and encouraged serious intellectual engagement. Of course, it also found ways to totally isolate people from each other, to leave militants facing the organization solely as individuals, and therefore totally isolated and atomised. And like any abuser, Spark also knew how to create a sense of community at times, such as 2-3 times a year having 'commie camps' as we joked about it, where we would take 10 days with people in our age and level of the organization and read and talk and hang out. We would also have a 'festival' for the workers around the organization every year, usually 2 times a year, with food and games and crafts and political discussions and booths. I don't feel that the experience was totally negative. Far from it. But it was bad enough. However, I don't think it was like what I have seen in most other organizations, either. Control stemmed from the idea that there are no new ideas, that the political analysis of Trotsky and Lenin was sufficient. The only task was to put it into practice in a truly Leninist way, with a peculiar workerism (which was anti-trade union/almost revolutionary syndicalist, btw). Because of this, I sometimes do not identify with the discussions of Leninism and organizations I see here. The Leninism I was used to was far more rigorous and I sometimes feel that people treat Lenin too lightly and read too much the SWP (GB) version of Lenin rather than Lenin. For what it is worth, a good re-reading of Lenin on self-determination right now would be a good thing, not because Lenin is right per se, but because he is wrong in really important ways that are much more sophisticated than his progeny. If you read him carefully, his critique of nationalism is scathing. His failure is in his conception of the state and capital as state-centered, not in his failure to be rigorous. Even so, it is better than much of the stuff I have read elsewhere and it is vastly more serious on these questions. In some respects, the 'ultra-left' has yet to surpass Lenin on these matters. Now before someone thinks I have gone off the deep end, allow me to say that I raise this as a challenge to be met, not agreement with Lenin. The problems are there and clear, but we have yet to rise to the challenge. Cheers, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Seay" <entheogens-AT-yahoo.com> To: <aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu>; <IMF-WB-protest-discuss-AT-yahoogroups.com>; <marxist-AT-yahoogroups.com>; <redbadbear-AT-yahoogroups.com> Cc: <kelchie-AT-aol.com>; <debsian-AT-pacbell.net> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 12:43 PM Subject: AUT: Why People Join Vanguard Organizations? > > 1) not recognizing that a lot of the kids involved > > with the iac / wwp are > > involved for reasons we should investigate and try > > to understand. that is: > > what attracts people to them? > > > This is a good point. Let's begin the investigation. > First of all, I think that > it is hard to be on the Left in this country (the > USA)...one can feel quite marginalized. These > vanguard organizations, like WWP, offer a social > circle for these young people...a place where they can > feel less marginalized. > > Nothing wrong with that in itself except that it is a > "hook" > which binds these people to a dogma. Not only does it > provide them with a dogma, it also "uplifts" them to > think that they are an elite, chosen people...the ones > that are going to lead us poor masses to the promised > land. Does this sound like some forms of christian > eschatology? Indeed! > > And what about the democratic Centralism that they > propose? Isn't it just > a device to alienate the individual's power into > a transcendent body...the central committee? Of > course, members of vanguard organizations are not > encouraged to read Marx's work on alienation (too > hegelian), let alone Feuerbach. They will be > encouraged to read a few selected lines from Lenin's > "What is to be Done". Democratic centralism basically > means to them, enact the central committee's program, > or be branded a "petit bourgeois individualist". In > other words, members should be good worker ants. > > It would be good, I think, that we create free > organizations that promote debate instead of > group-think. We should have groups that are organized > along vertical lines with no center, as opposed to > hierarchies with strong centers. > > Luca Casarini of "Tuta Bianca" has spoken a lot about > the need to > "fare societa", that is, to create long term free > associations of the Left that exist continually > through times of struggle and through times of > relative stasis. > I think it is a good idea and one that will provide > democratic forms in contrast to these annoying > vanguard groups like WWP. > > Thomas Seay > > > > ====> "The tradition of all the dead generations > weighs like a nightmare on the brain of the living" > > -Karl Marx > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com > > > --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu --- > --- from list aut-op-sy-AT-lists.village.virginia.edu ---
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